Episode Notes

As lawyers, we often negotiate for our clients. But are we able to negotiate for ourselves? In this episode, Stephanie talks with Brandon Bramley, Founder of The Salary Negotiator.

Learn common misperceptions about the salary negotiation process plus tons of tips that both the employee and employer can use to reach a better outcome. No matter which side of the table you’re on, you’ll find helpful advice in this episode.

Links from the episode:

The Salary Negotiator

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  • 5:06. Common myths around job offer negotiations
  • 13:07. Suggestions for posting a salary range
  • 23:07. Creativity in job perks



Welcome to The Lawyerist Podcast, a series of discussions with entrepreneurs and innovators about building a successful law practice in today’s challenging and constantly changing legal market. Lawyerist supports attorneys, building client-centered, and future-oriented small law firms through community, content, and coaching both online and through the Lawyerist Lab. And now from the team that brought you The Small Firm Roadmap and your podcast hosts



Stephanie Everett (00:35):

Hi, I’m Stephanie Everett.


Zack Glaser (00:36):

And I’m Zack. And this is episode 470 of the Lawyerist Podcast, part of the Legal Talk Network. Today, Stephanie talks with Brandon Bramley about salary negotiations.


Stephanie Everett (00:47):

Today’s podcast is brought to you by Posh Virtual Receptionists, NetDocuments & LawPay. We wouldn’t be able to do our show without their support, so stay tuned because you’ll hear from them in just a few minutes.


Zack Glaser (00:57):

So Stephanie ClioCon just happened, which is in my world kind of a big deal, and not just because it’s in Nashville, which is my hometown, but Lawyerist as an organization approach ClioCon a little bit differently. This year we had a booth.


Stephanie Everett (01:13):

Yeah, we’ve never done that before. We often go to the shows and we go to the conferences and we hang out as participants like everybody else, but this time we said let’s mix it up a bit. And so we had this booth and we didn’t want to just have what typically happens on the showroom floor, which is you go by and you just talk to people and maybe get some swag. I mean, let’s be fair, we still


Zack Glaser (01:34):

Love the swag.


Stephanie Everett (01:34):

Yes. Our swag though was different in that instead of giving you another mug, we had cookies and everybody loves a little sweet treat. We had some other stuff too, but the real thing that we did is we did speed round coaching sessions. We know that people may be curious about what is coaching really like, or they were legit stuck on a problem. So we said, you know what? We’re bringing all of our coaches to the event. Let’s offer free speed coaching sessions and help people get unstuck on one thing that they might be feeling stuck on.


Zack Glaser (02:10):

I love it because when I was practicing law, if somebody had said, Hey Zack, you need a law firm coach, I would’ve wondered what the heck that was. And this was a good way for a lot of people to kind of get introduced to what is it that Amy and Sara and Leticia and Stephanie and all of our coaches do on a daily basis for people?


Stephanie Everett (02:33):

So we had a lot of fun. We love connecting with people, and you know what? We’re generous around here in the Lawyerist world, so let’s keep the fun going. If that’s something that somebody that’s listening was like, Hey, I wish I was there and I’d like to try that out. We’re going to put the link in the show notes today for you to schedule one of those sessions with one of our coaches, and I think just go check it out, try it out, get some help. Maybe you’ll see this is something worth pursuing. Maybe you just get unstuck on that one thing and that keeps you going for the next six months, whatever it is, we’re here to help and we just love helping Lawyerist. We make our businesses. I mean, it is hard, but sometimes maybe we make it too hard and we just want to help you make it easier, make life better, and yeah, all the things.


Zack Glaser (03:21):

Well, that’s what we do. That’s what we do here at Lawyerist since we love spreading that joy around. And now here is Stephanie’s conversation with Brandon.


Brandon Bramley (03:34):

Hey everyone, thanks for having me. I’m excited to chat with you today, Stephanie, and share a little bit of my insight. My name’s Brandon Bramley and I’m the founder of the salary negotiator. I have a background in strategic negotiations from working in many professional negotiation roles at a few large companies, including both Amazon and American Airlines, where I’ve not only led multimillion dollar business to business negotiations, but I’ve also recruited and hired many career professionals. So I have over 10 years of experience in addition to that in actually negotiating compensation where I actually am the founder and the owner of the salary negotiator, where our core focus is to go ahead and provide professional job offer and salary negotiation coaching, as well as courses to help individuals actually navigate that negotiation process and earn higher compensation. So I’ve led hundreds of negotiations at all different companies, everything from helping clients negotiate with Google Meta Apple and Microsoft to smaller startups in different firms. So I’m excited to kind of chat with you today to see if I can help share some tangible advice for your listeners.


Stephanie Everett (04:36):

Yeah, I mean that’s a pretty focused market and one you don’t hear much about, right? So you’re out there actually helping coach people on how to negotiate as the employee, I take it to get better compensation,


Brandon Bramley (04:50):

Correct. Yeah. So I usually work with employees to help them negotiate either new job offers or renegotiate their compensation at their current company. So it’s usually on the employee side making sure that they are getting paid a competitive rate and hopefully helping them negotiate up to the top end of the pay range.


Stephanie Everett (05:06):

Makes sense. So maybe they kick us off. What are some of the common myths around a job offer negotiations that you want to set the record straight?


Brandon Bramley (05:16):

Yeah. Well, there’s definitely quite a bit. The biggest thing to think about when it comes to myths about salary negotiation is usually people enter the negotiation during the job interview process. So they go from thinking about interviewing, trying to put their best foot forward. So when they think about actually negotiating the pay, it’s very hard for them because they don’t want to do anything to jeopardize the relationship. So that’s usually where the miss that I see come up. So one of the biggest ones right out the gate is a lot of people think the employer’s going to outright refuse. They have no leverage to negotiate when in reality, if you think about it, if you’re going through the interview process, that company has spent not only a lot of time, but also a lot of money scheduling the hiring managers, getting everyone together, interviewing you, maybe even flying you in to make sure that you’re the right one for the role.



So when they do extend an offer, that’s actually when the leverage shifts and they want to do everything they can to make sure that you accept. So if they don’t hire you and you end up saying No, they have to go back to the drawing board all while the hiring team’s upset since they wanted you. So it is perfectly normal to actually have this conversation if the compensation data shows that they could pay more. So you do have leverage. It’s a pretty silly myth and by no means should they ever say no. Outside of that, I mean some of the other myths that I hear is a lot of people think the recruiter or the recruiter might say that they don’t have any flexibility or they might but not budge on their offer or their offer is set in stone. Probably similar to most negotiations that people listening to the show are going through is very rarely is anyone going to say that they’re open to negotiation.



So it’s very similar with recruiters and it couldn’t be further from the truth. Usually it comes down to actually going back to the compensation research to see if they do pay more in that position and then what strategies you take to actually broach that subject. I would say really the last myth that I definitely wanted to make sure that I touch on Stephanie, is a lot of people are very concerned and one of the biggest myths that I hear is that the company will withdraw the job offer if I negotiate or they’ll rescind it. To be honest, in all of our negotiations, we’ve actually never seen a job offer rescinded due to a salary negotiation. So that’s really just a myth that people are kind of building up and worried about, but as long as you’re taking a professional tone in a kind manner to actually lead the negotiation, making sure it’s not like that old school car salesman negotiation technique, this should actually make you look better in front of the hiring team and there should be no risk to actually jeopardizing that relationship. The worst case is all the strategies don’t work and they end up not moving on their offer, but at least you have peace of mind at the end of the day that you tried rather than just accepting as is.


Stephanie Everett (08:01):

Yeah, I mean, one thing I think I’ve been reading a lot about, so I’d love to hear your take, is as the employee, as the one who’s seeking the job, the question of what do you currently make? It feels like there’s a shift happening and this isn’t how people should be thinking about what kind of offer they’re going to make someone based on what they currently make, but what do you advise for folks when this question comes up?


Brandon Bramley (08:29):

Yeah, great question. So the biggest thing there to know about if a recruiter’s ever asking about either your current compensation or your salary expectations is by no mean do you actually need to go ahead and share that. Actually in a lot of states now, most companies can’t even ask for your current compensation. That’s actually illegal. As for the salary expectations piece is this is a big misnomer that a lot of people feel pressured to share, but you think about it, I mean all companies are different. So if you are changing jobs and you get that question, the pay and the compensation structure as well as the benefits are going to be wildly different than what you’re making and maybe it is a step up in your career, so it doesn’t make sense to go ahead and compare what you currently have compared to what they’re getting.



It really comes down to doing that compensation research and benefit research specific to that job. But as for the recruiter or the hiring team asking you about your salary expectations upfront is I highly suggest actually against doing that. And the reason being is if you think about it, usually they’re asking before you get the job offer. So maybe that’s early in the interview process. So you really don’t know much about the role yet. You don’t maybe know what level title. You also haven’t seen the comp package to see what benefits it comes with, if it has equity, if it has bonuses, items like that. So it’s way too early to discuss compensation. The risk you have there is if you throw out a number that’s maybe lower than they would offer, maybe it’s just based off your current compensation, but you’re moving into another high paid role, the risk is there is they could go ahead and provide you an offer that’s less than what they could provide. Or what we see a lot at some of the larger tech companies is they’ll actually down level you to get you into a lower comp band and other side of that coin is if you throw out a number that’s too big, they might be like, shoot, Hey Stephanie, we can’t afford you. We’re going to go in a different route, and they proceed forward with other candidates. So it really doesn’t make sense until you actually receive the job offer, understand everything for when you go ahead and disclose that through the salary negotiation process.


Stephanie Everett (10:31):

Yeah. What about on the other side of the coin? So I am starting to see that some states I think are requiring that salary ranges be posted on the job ad, and I guess I’m just curious, one, if you are advising employers, is this a good idea? Is this the direction that we should be headed and how should we be thinking about that and what it might do in terms of, I mean, I guess we do it because we feel like it gives someone an idea of what we’re thinking. So hey, if you are twice where we’re at, maybe you shouldn’t apply.


Brandon Bramley (11:05):

Yeah, I mean that’s spot on because at the end of the day, I mean what I talk to employers a lot about is their main goal is recruit good quality candidates that are interested in the role. So the thought about being sneaky and keeping the compensation different really is not being open and kind of attracting the right candidates, because if someone does go into interview for it and the compensation’s wildly different, they’re probably not going to go forward, and if they don’t know that upfront, they could waste both people’s time. But what we’re seeing is since some of the laws have changed, there is compensation included in a lot of job posting. Now the only thing that we’ve noticed is a lot of companies are making a little bit of a mockery of it, and they’re not necessarily putting the true data. So it’s vague on if they need to go ahead and include the base salary, if they need to include the total compensation components like bonuses, equity sign on, and different incentives as well as sometimes they’re not as specific with the internal job levels on there.



So you’ll see a huge range maybe of like a hundred thousand or more. So it’s a little impossible to know where that’s going to be, but the way we feel about it and what we’ve seen work best is when companies are open about the incentives they provide as well as the salary level. That way there isn’t any miscommunication during the interview process. The big thing to know there though, both as the employers are doing it and why you’re seeing ranges as well as what the employees are seeing is companies are still going to have a range. They do try not to pay everyone the same amount. The reason being is everyone’s going to have different skill sets, they’re trying to attract different talent that might be in different industries. So usually you’ll have a base salary pay range as well as a total compensation range for every level and role at that company. But by going through the negotiation process, typically you can negotiate up towards the top end of that pay range if you can find a way to justify it. Because the best way to think about that too is at the end of the day, sometimes it doesn’t matter who they hire, they’re going to expect you to essentially do the same work as anyone else in that position, handle the same projects. So at the end of the day, you should be paid the same as anyone else.


Stephanie Everett (13:07):

I hadn’t thought about that last point because sometimes when we do a range in our mind, we’re thinking about experience level and it’s like, okay, if we’re going to get someone with more experience, we probably would go to the top end of that range. And I feel like I’ve had candidates come in and sort of just expect that they would end up at the top end of the range. So I think it’s challenging as an employer, we’re all still figuring this out and figuring out what is the best approach. So I just wonder if you have any advice for the employers that are thinking about this, how would you want to see us do it in your perfect world?


Brandon Bramley (13:41):

Yeah, the advice is definitely, I mean, you should have a range, right? The big thing is no one wants to sit in a role where they don’t have room to grow. We all like keeping our compensation, keeping up with inflation. We want to be able to get bonuses, different merits, items like that. And if you have a set role, everyone’s kind of on that same playing field. So my recommendation honestly is to actually keep with the ranges, but then typically build it out more so not necessarily years of experience, but typically based off of the individual skillset that you’re looking for and maybe the individual projects if you can, depending on your size of your company, where it nets out and dial that in to the compensation. But as you probably experienced as well, Stephanie, is it does get difficult if you are attracting different candidates from different companies with different incentives to go ahead and make sure you have that flexibility as well.


Stephanie Everett (14:34):

Yeah, for sure. Alright, well let’s take a quick break. When we come back, I want to shift just slightly, but this has been so great. So we have so much more to cover.

Zack Glaser:

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Stephanie Everett (17:02):

All right, we’re back and I’m back with Brandon. We’re talking about almost like a subject people kind of want to avoid negotiating around salary. Can we just say it’s uncomfortable? I think as the employer, I mean as the employee, I think it’s tough because you don’t want to necessarily advocate for yourself as lawyers, which a lot of our audience are lawyers. We always have no problem negotiating for our clients, for people that we need to stand up for, but then when we get into this situation on pay, it’s personal, it’s for us, and suddenly it somehow just feels weird and icky. I don’t know, what do you got for us there? How do you talk us through that one.


Brandon Bramley (17:47):

I agree. I mean it’s tough. There’s personal negotiations myself that I fall into that I get in a little bit more in my head compared to when I’m helping clients or if I’m doing a business to business negotiation. And it’s very common. You’d be surprised at how many of our clients are in professional procurement roles where their core job is to go ahead and negotiate even as well as some lawyers that are going in-house with different companies. But it’s just something that doesn’t come natural and you start to get a few of those myths up in your mind. But the biggest thing that I like to say is when that starts to happen, especially when you’re having the issue of shifting from a business to business negotiation in your everyday work into actually fighting and advocating for yourself to get the right compensation is when it comes to salary negotiation, this is almost part of the interview process.



So when I was recruiting procurement professionals, it was a big thing I looked for is I knew they were going to negotiate and if they didn’t, it was a big red flag. So it’s really a chance to go ahead and one, build on those skills and show the hiring team that you do have the techniques to essentially have tough conversations in a kind and professional manner, but at the same time also advocate for yourself to make sure that you feel comfortable in your paving a success and a set level of pay that you’re going to be comfortable in so you can actually focus in the job going forward rather than thinking about if you’re getting paid right in the past. So it’s hard to shift out of that, but the biggest thing I like to say is treat as an interview. If your job’s going to be in negotiation or it’s just going to be working with external partners, internal partners, it’s a chance to highlight that you have this skillset and you’re having tough conversations in a kind professional manner.


Stephanie Everett (19:29):

I love that reframing because honestly, I’ve never thought about that before and it’s true. If part of your job is to negotiate settlement agreements, I mean there’s so many negotiations that happen no matter what type of law you practice. It never occurred to me that the fact that somebody would counter and would have a negotiation for their salary is actually showing you a skillset they have. I think that’s an important point for the employers to keep in mind like, Hey, this is a chance for you to see their stuff, see ’em in action.


Brandon Bramley (19:59):

Yeah, it’s really not bad, and I work with a lot of employers as well on negotiation strategies for their recruiters because it is becoming more common and they don’t want it to be a bad response if someone does try to negotiate, but more of a learning experience of how did they do that? How are they going to interact with not only our team members, but also if they’re external facing, to make sure that they do have that skillset and they’re giving them chance to do it. It doesn’t mean that the employers should be low balling them off the bat, so they have to kind of advocate and fight back up to get there, but it really is a process that should be fun. It shouldn’t be like that old school negotiation that everyone thinks of the car dealership where they throw out a high number, you throw out a low number and then you argue at each other until you hopefully meet in the middle. It should be more strategic where you’re focusing on the data, you’re looking at the job role, you’re looking at kind of your own self-worth, and then using different strategies as well as techniques to communicate that fairly.


Stephanie Everett (20:54):

Yeah, I’ve also been thinking about, I mean you kind of hinted at this too. I think some people just want to win negotiations. I used to work with this lawyer and I think everybody would agree, anyone who met him knew he wanted to win. In his mind it was a battle and there was going to be a winner and there was going to be a loser, and yet when we were trying to bring people onto the team, I’d have to constantly remind him, we are actually recruiting this person. We want them to get excited about working here. We want them to feel like they’re joining the team and they’re going to be valued. Maybe we don’t want to beat them up and feel like, okay, yeah, I’m going to take this offer. So I feel like there’s a lot of emotions on both sides of the table in this one. And so what thoughts do you have about how the employers should approach that part of the negotiation?


Brandon Bramley (21:47):

That’s huge. I’ll be honest. I mean, that’s a great call out because a lot of the best recruiters that my clients work with are ones that are more open. They understand the concerns because at the end of the day, everyone would like to be paid more. If they see a job posting that shows different numbers, they obviously want to be on that high end, not the low end. So it should be a fun and exciting process and they should work together. It really shouldn’t be combative to where one person is trying to win. It’s more so in my recommendation for employers is communicating of, Hey, I’ll try to work with you this, I appreciate you kind of bringing it to us, but lemme take it back to the team to see what we could do so then they can at least come back with a strategy.



And it’s not really just kind of that gatekeeper that say, Nope, not going to happen if you want the job or not, or any of those pressure tactics. It’s more so of, Hey, we’re excited to have you. We want to make sure that you feel comfortable, but need to take this back to see what we can kind of do more that communication, because I guarantee you whoever is sending that counter and that candidate in their mind, they’re a little worried and they’re kind of going back and forth of if I have the confidence, am I saying the right thing? Shoot, am I going to lose this job offer and all those sill myths. So to keep them excited throughout that process, even if the employer doesn’t really actually have the flexibility to move, it’s going to build a stronger relationship and show that the company is willing to work with them, whether it’s not that one point, but hopefully later down the road.


Stephanie Everett (23:07):

Yeah. Alright. So I’m really excited to pick your brain a little on this one because I think that there’s more room and more flexibility in this process. Now, outside of base comp, I think it’s traditionally people might’ve thought about what’s my base compensation? But now employers have the ability to just be more creative and kind of offer new and different type of perks that are really getting people’s attention. So I’d love to hear from you, what are some of the things that you’re hearing that the employees are like, okay, that’s something cool that’s exciting. Sometimes, especially as small businesses, we don’t always have the biggest checkbook, but maybe we can be more creative in other places. So what do you got for us in that regard?


Brandon Bramley (23:54):

Yeah, I mean the biggest thing, whether it’s anecdotal or on, since the data has aru, it is people love perks. The more perks you can include, doesn’t matter what it is, a lot of people aren’t going to pay out of pocket to do it. The more you can include the better. However, when it comes to negotiation, we notice that there’s a lot of simple perks that just aren’t on the table upfront. One of the big things right now that’s going across the country still from the pandemic is hybrid and remote work. That’s a question that anyone should be asking during the recruiting process or during the negotiation process because you’d be surprised at how flexible some companies can be if you can actually do your job that way. In addition to that, I mean it comes along with work from home packages. Maybe that’s a quick thing.



It’s initial upfront expense for the company, but for someone that’s going to be working remote from home, actually having that, maybe they’re getting a new monitor, a new chair, so they’re excited, they feel comfortable to do their work is a big one. As well as things like helping with a wifi stipend or a phone stipend. Outside of that, I mean, I’ve seen everything from Uber credits for food during a month. You get a certain stipend as well as different gym memberships that essentially the company’s not paying for, but they had someone go. There were a few different companies or some local brands, especially for small businesses and actually negotiate directly with some small gyms to actually get a discounted rate for their employees. But a lot of the times is what I’ve noticed is you don’t see these in the initial benefit package. You only get them if they ask. So you need to make sure, one, find out what might be important to you and make sure that you’re asking questions at the beginning of the negotiation to see what’s on the table and what you might be able to push for.


Stephanie Everett (25:37):

Yeah, I mean I guess that’s a great reminder to the employers too, which I know I’m always talking to my folks about is what are all of your benefits? Because I think people tend to think, oh, health insurance 4 0 1 k, and I’m like, do you provide weekly lunches or I had one law firm, they kept a bicycle at the office, actually a couple. So if you wanted to go on a bike ride during the day, you could, or walking meetings. I mean, people get jazzed up about all kinds of things today, and somebody might hear, wow, you actually go for a walk and have a meeting while you walk around the office, outside the office, whatever it is that might be really appealing to someone like, cool, this is a place I want to be. And so I think you as employers, we have to really do a good job of putting all that out as part of the offer.


Brandon Bramley (26:27):

Yeah, I mean that one with the kind of bike, I mean that’s a huge benefit and talks to the culture of the company that they pay, get some fresh air. You’re not just going to be inside working all the time. It’s easy items like that to where it really might make or break of someone’s interest as well. Some things that people usually don’t think about, and then when they get it, they get excited, they get pumped, and they know that they’re joining the right team.


Stephanie Everett (26:50):

Have you seen any other kind of perks that stand out to you that you’re like, oh, that was different. I didn’t think about that.


Brandon Bramley (26:57):

Yeah, I say the big ones are going to be on the free incentives, like the food and the different memberships, but also it’s really coming down to when I work with bigger companies, usually those are pretty set in stone, but when it comes down to the smaller startups and smaller companies is going to be the individualized items that are usually in their local city. So if they have a headquarters in a state city, it’s some of the known brands, whether it’s like a fitness membership or say it’s like a food subscription that they’ve gone beyond themselves to actually negotiate just like a one-off deal to go ahead and make sure that like, Hey, this is what we’re doing for our team. We want to make sure that we might not be able to provide, say the fitness benefits, but we have these special rates that we brought in for our employees. You can take advantage of these. So those are usually the big benefits that we’re seeing in addition to work remote. One of the fun ones I saw since I did come from American Airlines is I was working with a consulting company that actually consulted for different aviation companies, and they actually provided as a stipend to go ahead and get discounted rates and help pay for their flight school. So that’s probably the biggest and coolest one I’ve seen. But you really don’t know unless you don’t ask.


Stephanie Everett (28:08):

Yeah, I know one of the things we also preach around here is how important it is to make the offer. This is a big step. I mean, not quite proposal level, but these days I always notice on Facebook, all my friends posting about, apparently there’s a big deal about how you ask someone to homecoming these days. I mean, luckily that was not a thing when I was a kid, but I think there’s some lessons to be learned for law firms, for employers of how are you going to actually make the offer you want to make it fun and exciting and an invitation to join the team. So I’m just curious if you’ve seen anything unique or interesting in that regard or any advice you might have for us?


Brandon Bramley (28:49):

Yeah, so I mean my biggest advice for when making the offer is they should definitely do it if it’s the right candidate. But one thing that I wouldn’t say necessarily annoys me, but it’s difficult, and where I’ve seen clients struggle is when they don’t get the offer details in writing, a lot of the times hiring teams will go ahead and share information over the phone. Usually it’s a test to see how the candidate responds, but when it comes down to it, I mean, typically you’re leaving a company or you’re going to be committing to this company for the next three to eight years, so you want to know everything about it. So I always recommend actually being comfortable as the employer actually putting the offer letter out there verbally telling them, obviously get ’em excited, and then sharing not only the benefit information, but also all the details that come with it to help make sure that that person’s making an educated decision.



They have everything in front of ’em to get them excited before they accept the role. Because what I see a lot of times is when someone’s excited, but they start to think that the company’s being a little cagey, they just share information like, oh, well, here’s the benefits or the compensation and the benefits, and they come to me to help us negotiate and we say, well, what are the benefits? When do you get the bonuses there? Equity is there, all these questions, you don’t have enough decisions. And it goes back to probably what a lot of your listeners are doing is actually getting the details to make sure you can review ’em. You have them so you feel comfortable and you know what deal you’re walking into.


Stephanie Everett (30:13):

Perfect. All right. Last topic we should probably just touch on is what you mentioned renegotiation, but I guess it’s like your annual compensation discussion, and there’s probably opportunity there on both sides to think about that and engage in that conversation a little differently. And I think maybe some of the advice that I would say to the employers is we’re starting to see if all you do is give a cost of living adjustment, you could lose your good employees because they see leaving you as the only opportunity to really make a big advancement. And so what thoughts do you have there for us that we should be thinking about?


Brandon Bramley (30:52):

Yeah, so for the employee side, renegotiation is normal if the compensation data shows it, right? If you’ve been sitting in a role for a while, maybe you haven’t been raised or you’re be getting those standard cost of living adjustments, it doesn’t necessarily mean that your compensation has stayed up with the market. So really on an annual basis for most employees, I recommend actually going through the compensation research and finding out how much that role is paying so you can see what they’re bringing in new hires at as well as what you could get elsewhere to see if you’re in line. Because if you’re not in line, it is worth it to have that candid conversation with your manager or your or HR team to make sure that one, you’re getting paid fairly if they have the ability to. And also, so you’re not keeping that in to where maybe you do feel undervalued and then that makes you not as happy with the job and you start seeking other opportunities.



As for the employer, it’s hard, right? You’re trying to control your costs with the employee costs being kind of one of the top expenses that you’re going to have as a business, but you also want to make sure that your talent is happy and that there’s something else you could do. So typically it’s hard to say what is best, but usually having a mayor program to where you do look at the cost of living and then you also take in other incentives is key. It’s always going to fluctuate. But one of the biggest things I’ve seen since I usually work with people actually renegotiating their salaries is starting to look at some of those employees that are top performers that may have been with the company for five or plus years, to making sure that while they have been getting that merit, there’s been such a big jump within the last four years on compensation, is to make sure that’s in line with the other people in the team of what their current salary is and that those individual increases have been staying it. The worst thing that can happen is end having someone that you love. They’re a huge value add to the business. They don’t know how to have the conversation to bring them back up to market, and another company in comes in, gives them a better offer, and they end up going with that where it’s going to be much more expensive for you to go ahead and hire them at that new rate.


Stephanie Everett (32:56):

Yeah, totally makes sense. Well, I know I’ve learned so much. This has been a great discussion. We’ll for sure, put the link to the salary negotiator in the show notes, so if people want to find you and connect with you, we’ll make that really easy to do. But thanks so much for being with me today.


Brandon Bramley (33:13):

Absolutely. Thank you for having me, Stephanie. It was good to connect and share a little bit of our insight.



The Lawyerist Podcast is edited by Britany Felix. Are you ready to implement the ideas we discuss here into your practice? Wondering what to do next? Here are your first two steps. First. If you haven’t read The Small Firm Roadmap yet, grab the first chapter for free at Lawyerist.com/book. Looking for help beyond the book? Let’s chat about whether our coaching communities, are right for you. Head to Lawyerist.com/community/lab to schedule a 10-minute call with our team to learn more. The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not endorsed by Legal Talk Network. Nothing said in this podcast is legal advice for you.

Your Hosts

Stephanie Everett

Stephanie Everett is the President of Lawyerist, where she leads the Lawyerist Lab program. She is the co-author of the bestselling book The Small Firm Roadmap and is a regular guest and co-host of the weekly Lawyerist Podcast.

Featured Guests

Brandon Bramley Headshot

Brandon Bramley

Brandon Bramley is the Founder of The Salary Negotiator. He has a background in strategic negotiations from working in many professional negotiation roles at a few large companies, including Amazon and American Airlines, where he’s not only led multi-million-dollar business-to-business negotiations but has also recruited and hired many career professionals. He also has over 10 years of experience in negotiating salaries and currently runs The Salary Negotiator, where he provides professional job offer and salary negotiation coaching to help individuals navigate the job offer negotiation process confidently, and earn competitive compensation. He’s coached clients through hundreds of salary negotiations with companies ranging in size from small businesses and startups to some of the largest global corporations. 

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Last updated October 11th, 2023