Episode Notes

Do you feel overwhelmed in your day-to-day as you try to get everything done? Guess what? You’re not alone. Paul Unger, speaker, author, and owner at Affinity Consulting, joins Stephanie and offers specific tips on how to manage your to-do list, process fires, and focus on the most important things.  

Links from the episode:  

Best Law Firm Website Contest

Affinity’s Digital Courses 

Your Ultimate Blueprint for Managing Time as a Legal Professional 

Tame the Digital Chaos


If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? Check out our coaching community to see if it's right for you.

  • 10:16. Digital Interruptions
  • 19:56. Tools for Putting out Fires
  • 20:38. Task Switching


Speaker 1 (00:04): 

Welcome to the Lawyerist Podcast, a series of discussions with entrepreneurs and innovators about building a successful law practice. In today’s challenging and constantly changing legal market, Lawyerist supports attorneys building, client-centered and future-oriented small law firms through community content and coaching, both online and through the Lawyerist lab. And now from the team that brought you the small firm roadmap and your podcast hosts. 


Jennifer Whigham (00:35): 

Hi, I’m Jennifer Whigham. 


Stephanie Everett (00:36): 

And I’m Stephanie Everett. And this is episode 429 of the Lawyerist Podcast, part of the Legal Talk Network. Today I interview Paul Unger about time management. 


Jennifer Whigham (00:47): 

Today’s podcast is brought to you by  Posh Virtual Receptionists, Clio, & Documate, we would not be able to do this show with author support. Stay tuned. I’ll tell you a little bit more about them later on. 


Stephanie Everett (00:58): 

Today we get to talk about one of the my favorite things that we do around here, which is our annual best law firm website contest. 


Jennifer Whigham (01:06): 

People get really excited about this. They start emailing us several months ahead of time being like, did I miss it? Did I miss it? So it’s pretty fun. 


Stephanie Everett (01:14): 

Yeah. So the good news is you have not missed it, but you need to act fast because by the time this episode airs, you will be close to the deadline to submit your nominations, which is going to happen on Wednesday, February 8th, but there is still time. So you can go to the nomination page, we’ll put the link in the show notes, but if you’re curious, it’s go dot Lawyerist dot com slash 2023 best law firm website. And you can nominate yourself, you can nominate other people. There are a few rules that you need to be aware of, and we also spell out what we’re looking for and what we’re judging based on. 


Jennifer Whigham (01:51): 

Yeah, we have all the past winners of this contest up on the, at least we have the 2022 on that same page where you can apply, so you can look at that to get an idea or get some inspiration about what we’re looking for. 


Stephanie Everett (02:03): 

To me, what’s always fun about this contest is just seeing those ideas and inspiration and how different people are talking about how they help people and what they bring and how their website looks and functions. Don’t forget, it’s a big piece of what we’re looking at beyond just does it look good? Does it actually work? 


Jennifer Whigham (02:23): 

Yeah, exactly. I mean, there are very beautiful websites out there that you can’t figure out how to even get to a contact form or figure out what you’re doing. So it really has to be both. 


Stephanie Everett (02:34): 

So like Jennifer said, you can learn more about the contests and the past winners all on the page and totally encourage you to check that out. And then stay tuned because the winners for this year will be announced on Friday, February 24th. 


Jennifer Whigham (02:49): 

Ooh. All right. Well now here’s your conversation with Paul. 


Paul Unger (02:56): 

Hi, I’m Paul Unger and I’m a recovering attorney from Columbus, Ohio. I help lawyers clean up their digital messes. 


Stephanie Everett (03:05): 

Hey Paul, welcome to the show. So it’s interesting that you said you’re from Columbus because I was going to introduce you also my newest neighbor. 


Paul Unger (03:15): 

That’s right. I just relocated to Atlanta in October. 


Stephanie Everett (03:18): 

So now you get to say, I guess it doesn’t feel natural yet to say you’re from Atlanta. You live in Atlanta. You could be in Atlanta. 


Paul Unger (03:25): 

That’s right. 


Stephanie Everett (03:26): 

We’ll adopt you Paul, in addition to being my new neighbor is my new team member, my new business partner, you’re, you and I are just all kinds of things. And I’m excited to talk to you today about something that every lawyer struggles with, which is, like you said, cleaning up our digital mess, time, all the things that are flying at us all day long every day. 


Paul Unger (03:49): 

That’s right. It is a constant challenge, even for me, it’s a constant challenge. 


Stephanie Everett (03:55): 

And so I guess just to give a little bit of the backstory, you were practicing law and then at some point, tell us how you made the leap into doing what you do now and what’s fun for you about that, your job? 


Paul Unger (04:08): 

I originally worked at a boutique personal injury firm and I left, we had lots of processes and lots of technology in place, so I didn’t have to worry about anything, but I found myself on my own and with nobody to help. And I just looked and looked and looked for just for somebody to help me set up my time billing and accounting system or any type of software to help manage my practice. And it was impossible. And it wasn’t impossible, but it was really hard to come by those individuals in the mid nineties. And I love technology and I love the law. So this is kind of the intersection between the law and tech. And that’s why Baron Henley and I started our company when we did. 


Stephanie Everett (04:52): 

And so a lot of people have probably seen you or heard you before because you’re out doing tons of CLEs and teaching lawyers some best practices, which I love. So I was excited to talk to you today about, it’s like everyday struggles, all the things we’re trying to do. And maybe it just starts with that. We’re trying to do a lot of things as lawyers business owners and managers and marketers and running our books. It’s a lot. So what do you tell someone when they come to you and they’re just in a state of overwhelm from all the things 


Paul Unger (05:26): 

Well, you know, could do a deep dive into, and everybody’s really different. And I found, I’ve really found that to be true with coaching, surprising how different everybody’s situation is. But what is, I think universal is our desire or urge to be a multitasking superhero. And to give a concrete example, just look at the way we process email. Most of us had two monitors, but we keep outlook maximized on one monitor all day long. And on one screen you’re trying to do mental gymnastics and write something complex or do some analysis and another, you’ve got bombs and fires and easier things to do. So one of the faults of being human is we seek the path of least resistance. So we’re doing something hard on one screen and another screen. We have an email come in about the potluck on Friday. And so what are you going to do? 



And when you pause? And so it’s really easy to be distracted with email. And so one thing that almost universally everybody can do is minimize that other monitor and be more deliberate about when we check email. So some people call that batch processing email, but in very simple terms, maybe it means for you, you check email five times a day instead of 74, which is the average number of times the American worker checks email during the course of the day. And for me, it might be three for somebody else that it might be eight, but it’s not 74. But we’re more deliberate about when we check email, 


Stephanie Everett (07:06): 

It stays closed. And when it’s email time, then you open it up. You just don’t try to glance over it all day long. 


Paul Unger (07:13): 

It’s really no different than if you take a step back into the eighties or the seventies or earlier when we had telephone calls instead of email. We didn’t answer every single call as it came in. That would be chaotic. It’s placing yourself in a nursery full of screaming kids while you’re trying to draft an appellate brief. You would never voluntarily do that, but we voluntarily leave our email maximized all day. So we’re we’re doing it to ourselves. 


Stephanie Everett (07:43): 

Yeah, I agree. It’s one of my favorite tips and it’s so easy to do, but people really resist it because they think I need to be available to that client or to the judge or whoever. I have to respond really quickly. 


Paul Unger (07:59): 

It’s funny, we have that misinterpretation with a lot of emails. And one tip that I tell people when I talk to an entire organization, it really works very well because they can implement it within and communicate that every to everybody. But it’s be transparent as a sender of an email, be transparent about your expectations. So it’s a good thing to say, I don’t need this for three weeks, or I don’t need this until the 27th at three o’clock, so don’t worry about it. And because they’re reading the opposite, they’re reading in all of these feelings, say, oh my god, Paul wants me to get this to them right away. And they may not at all. And then if you need it tomorrow, then state that you need it tomorrow. But that really helps. It helps the receiver and it helps you and it helps the receiver prioritize as well. 


Stephanie Everett (08:50): 

Yeah, that’s a great tip. And I often remind people, there are times when you’re in court and you have to shut your phone off and you can’t check email. And for the most part, nobody, it’s fine. <laugh>, nobody dies or anything bad happens. So you could probably turn your email off for a few hours at work and really work on that brief or that thing that you’re doing. 


Paul Unger (09:11): 

Right. And the other thing that I really encourage people to do is creating a V I P list. Now you do it different ways in different platforms like an Outlook, you would do it through rules in Gmail, you would do it like rules based, but you turn off notifications everywhere. And then an Outlook, you could find an email from that person that’s on your v i P list and you right click and you select create rule. And then you just say, when I get an email from that person, display a desktop alert. There’s your v i P list, you’re giving a hotline to your brain to five people instead of the whole world. And that way you could be super responsive to your mentor or the managing partner or very important client, but for everybody else, they’re going to fall within that five times a day regimen, which is probably more than enough. 


Stephanie Everett (10:03): 

Yeah, I love that tip. That’s awesome. I just set some rules on my outlook before I jumped on this recording and I was having lots of fun with it. I was like, where have you been my whole life? Yeah, this is great. 


Paul Unger (10:15): 



Stephanie Everett (10:16): 

So I think you’ve touched on an important topic, which is just digital interruptions. We have so much tech we’re using and things are coming at us in lots of different ways and formats. So what do you tell people besides minimizing Outlook, that’s a good one, or whatever your email system is, what are some other ways we can stay focused? 


Paul Unger (10:36): 

What’s really fascinating is during the covid lockdown, I started surveying people in my seminars as well as those that I coached. And probably the number one reported tool to help people stay focused was daily planning. And I’m a big proponent of daily planning and in particular on paper. So the ironic thing, <laugh>, it’s crazy because I’ve been teaching lawyers how to be paperless for 25 years, but I’m promoting this totally analog solution, which is this wonderful little simple paper-based daily planner, whether it’s Covey, whether it’s Panda Best Self Journal. I have one that I designed called My Tame, the Digital Chaos Daily Roadmap. But whatever it is, it’s right by your keyboard and you think of it as a contract with yourself. So you make this contract with yourself probably the day before, the night before you leave for the office for the next day. That way you could sleep better at night what’s on your plate. 



And then you come back in the morning and you review it. You may need to make some tweaks based on the emails that landed in your inbox, but when the bombs come in and they land on your lap, you have a tool to help you shift things around and prioritize. Otherwise, it’s just like a bunch of tornadoes and it’s really chaotic and you feel out of control. So it does help you stay focused even though your day never goes as planned. But it’s an amazing tool and you don’t, if you really love to use technology, instead you could load your planning page on your iPad, you could do the planning on your computer. I’m not a big fan of it on your desktop because you tend to minimize your screens for things that you need to use. So what works best with most people is something like on an iPad that you keep next to your keyboard. And so it’s not out of sight, out of mind, but it’s a great way to stay focused and to help you process those fires. 


Stephanie Everett (12:44): 

So tell me a little bit more, I want to dig into some specifics here. Cause I have all kinds of questions. The planner, the piece of paper. Are you capturing what you’re going to do each hour of each day or your priorities, I just need to get these two things done to call it a success or both or something different? What’s on the piece of paper? 


Paul Unger (13:04): 

It’s both. So you know, get your two pages, think of it like a landscape page split in half. On the left you have your priorities and generally you’re going to identify three to five priorities. They could be tasks, they could be just more general priorities that have sub-tasks or multi-part, but those are your priorities for the day. That’s going to help you stay focused. When you get that email in and you think, all right, do I go down, do I down that road and become part of somebody else’s plan or do I stay on my plan? If you don’t plan, your failure to plan usually results in you becoming part of somebody else’s plan. So on the left, those priorities are really important. On the right hand side, you time block, so you’re going to time block in 30 minute or 60 minute increments, but again, that’s a contract with yourself. 



You’ve got to build buffer time in and you learn about your really unrealistic task list as well, because after doing it for a few days, you’re like, oh my gosh, this is completely unrealistic. Time blocking helps you create more realistic plans, and then you, of course, you have to shift things around. Baron Henley, when I went over this methodology with him originally, his question was, why would I write down my calendar on this silly piece of paper when I have it in Outlook already? And so the answer to that really is, number one, the things that are on your Outlook calendar have probably been there for weeks and you’re not familiar with them. And number two, you don’t have everything on there either. You’re not blocking every minute of your day and you don’t have those buffers that you build in. And again, if it’s an outlook, then you have to leave it open on your desktop and it’s kind of a waste of space for your computer because you want to be comparing documents and having reference materials up there, not necessarily your calendar eating up your monitor the whole day. 


Stephanie Everett (15:03): 

Yeah, so that makes sense. So you really have both, you have your digital calendar. We’re not saying that goes away, but you’re saying that you use the paper to plan your day and your priorities and how you spend the day. 


Paul Unger (15:15): 

That’s right. Again, these are tools and you can use ’em different ways. What some people do is they use an index card to identify the three to five priorities. They leave that out on their desk, and then they time block their entire day in Outlook. And that’s okay too. It’s really whatever works, whatever works for you. 


Stephanie Everett (15:33): 

Yeah, no, this is really resonating with me. I’ll confess that I’ve had the Outlook calendar obviously for years. Last year at some point I went to a digital Notepad solution and I downloaded a digital planner in that format, and then it became January this year, and that’s always my refresh. And I was like, you know what? I got to go back to paper. So I ordered my favorite paper planner. I’m showing it to Paul right now, and I’m so happy because it’s, again, and I still have my Outlook calendar, but I was like, I think I need to go back to paper. 


Paul Unger (16:08): 

Yeah, right. You still have your appointments on Outlook, right? Yeah, the million dollar app, to me, it’s a paper, the killer app. It’s just not out of sight, out of mind. And it’s not that we are glued to or we’re old and well, I am old, but it’s not that I’m trying to hold onto that paper. It’s that it is a useful tool. It is what it is, and it is a very useful tool. 


Stephanie Everett (16:33): 

Yeah, I agree. Well, let’s take a break and hear from our sponsors. When we come back, we’re going to have to talk about everyone’s least favorite topic maybe, which is putting out fires. It’s not fun, but it is important. 


Speaker 5 (16:47): 

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Stephanie Everett (19:16): 

Back with Paul, we’ve been talking about how to get rid of our digital mess and make our lives just easier. I mean, just even saying that term makes me feel like our life is going to look and feel lighter at the end of the day. And I know lots of people have tried time blocking, and then what ends up happening is the fires start coming in, the emergencies coming in, like you were talking about the bombs, right? Something happens in the middle of the day that sort of takes people off kilter. So what do you say for that? What are some top tips we can do when those emergencies and fires start coming in? 


Paul Unger (19:56): 

The first tool, primary tool I would say is that daily planning tool because that’s going to equip you with what you need in order to help prioritize what you have going on. But the reality is we have to task switch. We all say stop multitasking, stop multitasking, but it’s kind of unrealistic. First of all, we don’t multitask, we single task and we just task switch, but it’s unrealistic in the legal profession to say, stop task switching. You’re going to get fired. Your client’s going to fire you, you’re going to get fired. So you need to learn how to juggle. And so we had to be equipped with juggling tools and probably the two top juggling tools, and there are many, but I’ll give you the top two juggling tools that I typically recommend is the first is getting your digital house in order. Meaning when you switch tasks or somebody sends you an email and asks you a question, how long does it take you to find the answer? 



How many places do you have to look for that information? So if you have to look and Dropbox, if you have to go digging in inboxes, maybe in other people’s inboxes too, and a paper file on a network drive in the document management system because only part of the people are saving things in there, you’re never going to be good at task switching. You’re never going to be good at actually processing email efficiently and things pile up and it’s very frustrating because it takes you 15 minutes to find the answer. So you’ve got to get your digital house in order, even if you love paper. The reality is in 2023, we work with everything electronic, so you better figure out how to manage and organize electronic information. The answer to that really is a document management system, probably software based in today’s world because of email management. 



And then the second thing that helps us juggle is knowing where we left off. And there are wonderful practice management systems that can allow you to note the status, but statistically, what is it? Probably 85% of firms don’t have practice management systems. So there’s solutions like Clio, rocket Matter, my case Action step and so forth. Those solutions are wonderful for noting where you left off in the status, but if you don’t have that, you could just start, and it’s not very elegant, but you could just start a Word document or an Excel spreadsheet where you keep all your notes, you have random neural firing, do you, you’re on the call with a client, you journalize it before you switch from task A to the fire that you just got pulled into you journalize where you left off. You just take two minutes and journalize where you left off. That way next week you can come back and you can pick up where you left off without having to spend a half hour figuring it out, which is one of the reasons why we procrastinate as well. We don’t know what the next step is. We don’t know where we left off. Equipping yourself with juggling tools and juggling methodologies I think is very important. 


Stephanie Everett (23:02): 

Yeah, it seems like there’s some added benefits to that idea of journaling. I think that’s great advice that we don’t really talk about enough is capturing what you’re doing as you’re doing it. That also has got to help delegate. And when you have other people on the team, maybe if you’re the associate and somebody else needed to see where you left off, if that’s in a shared place, that would make a lot of sense to me. Like, oh, now maybe you’re out sick. Now somebody can go in and actually finish the task because they know what you were doing and what needs to come next. 


Paul Unger (23:33): 

That’s right. My O c D brain wants all of that, put in a nice neat database like a Clio or Rocket Matter, but it could be Word document, like I said. And the beauty behind the technology today is you can co-edit that Word document, so it doesn’t have to be just your status sheet. It could be a teams status sheet, so we could both be editing it at the same time without stepping on each other. So it’s really, again, it’s not very elegant when we compare it to what a practice management tool can do. I feel kind of embarrassed to even suggest it, but the reality is if you don’t have it in the budget or you don’t have the tool yet, you have to use something. And we used to do it by paper all the time, right? Yeah. No, remember we, and the front cover of you have a status that’s right, a status sheet. Then technology came about, we just lost our minds, we lost common sense, and we can kind of resort back to some of these analog or really not terribly sophisticated tools. 


Stephanie Everett (24:40): 

And I think the other thing we do is we get paralyzed because we think I have to make the perfect decision of the perfect tech tool to use going forward, because I don’t want to do it the wrong way. So let me go research all these options and we don’t get started. So I hear what I hear you saying is, look, while you’re figuring out that tech solution, just use a piece of paper in the word format. I mean, not a piece of paper, this instance, but a document. Just keep your notes there in a shared file, and eventually when you’re ready, you can implement that pretty tech tool that does all the things, but so many people just don’t even get started because they want to find the perfect tool. And it doesn’t have to be, it could be an Excel spreadsheet. 


Paul Unger (25:28): 

I was listening to your seminar in December about task management tools and you know, mentioned Trello and Asana, and of course there’s Microsoft to-do, which most of us already have. That’s free. Yeah, I mean, there are dozens of really good tools, and honestly, I think you can, what resonated with me is you could just pick one and you could spend months trying to analyze them and not get anything done. Yeah, it does paralyze you. Yeah. 


Stephanie Everett (26:01): 

Yeah. And it’s funny, even in that session that I did, people were immediately, when I was talking about the concept of project management, they were like, is there a tool that will do that? And I was like, guys, don’t get stuck on the tools. You could use a piece of paper, you could use Post-it notes first, learn the process and learn the system. So in this case, start journaling, start taking down what it is you’re doing, and then we’ll build in the tech tools. They can come later. I think that’s brilliant. 


Paul Unger (26:29): 

The reality is, if you’re in the Microsoft world and you have Microsoft 365, my favorite for a personal task list is Microsoft to do. And then if you need something more robust, you can always move to Microsoft Planner. But if you’re not in the Microsoft world or you haven’t adopted Microsoft 365 yet, or you’re in the Mac world, I love Trello and Asana. I think they’re both brilliant tools. In fact, I kind of wish I didn’t have Microsoft to do because I love those tools so much. But yeah, a lot of great tools out there for that. 


Stephanie Everett (27:07): 

Yeah. Well, let’s give people some more resources because you’ve just said a bunch of things. One is our teammates at Affinity Consulting Group have created a lot of really cool digital courses and manuals that help you learn how to use the tools you already have, because I think what you just said is a great point. A lot of people are like, what new tool that do I need? When the reality is you might already have the tool if you just learn how to use Microsoft Offices’ rules in email as you just showed us in one of your tips that could help you control your inbox. I just set up a rule before this recording, anytime I got an email from this person, put it here, and I’m wait. I was like, where have you been my whole life? Why didn’t I do this a long time ago? 



So one is we’ve developed some really cool stuff for you to learn how to do the things with the tools you already have, and we’ll make sure that all these are in the show notes as well. And then two, you actually have a new digital course coming out, the blueprint for managing your Time for Legal Professionals, and it’s going to go over all these tips and a whole bunch more, and that’s going to launch on February 9th. We’ll make sure that a link to that signup page is also in the show notes, and I’m sure we’ll be sharing it with the whole Lawyerist community because we’re just really excited about all the knowledge and expertise that you bring on this topic, but so many more, and now we get to get it all out of your brain in front of us. So I’m excited you were on today. We’re going to have you back, Paul, because there’s so much more you can share, but I think these have been just fabulous tips. 


Paul Unger (28:40): 

Well, thank you for having me on. Yeah, look out for those resources. There’s also Affinity Insight, which has just a plethora of how-tos and just really digging into Outlook and how to use Outlook, but a variety of tools out there. 


Stephanie Everett (28:55): 



Speaker 1 (28:58): 

The Lawyerist podcast is edited by Britney. Felix, are you ready to implement the ideas we discussed here into your practice? Wondering what to do next? Here are your first two steps. First, if you haven’t read the Small Firm Roadmap yet, grab the first chapter for free at Lawyerist dot com slash book, looking for help beyond the book. Let’s chat about whether our coaching communities are right for you. Head to Lawyerist dot com slash community slash to schedule a 10 minute call with our team to learn more. The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not endorsed by Legal Talk Network. Nothing said in this podcast is legal advice for you. 





The Lawyerist Podcast is edited by Britany Felix. Are you ready to implement the ideas we discuss here into your practice? Wondering what to do next? Here are your first two steps. First. If you haven’t read The Small Firm Roadmap yet, grab the first chapter for free at Lawyerist.com/book. Looking for help beyond the book? Let’s chat about whether our coaching communities, are right for you. Head to Lawyerist.com/community/lab to schedule a 10-minute call with our team to learn more. The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not endorsed by Legal Talk Network. Nothing said in this podcast is legal advice for you. 

Your Hosts

Stephanie Everett

Stephanie Everett is the President of Lawyerist, where she leads the Lawyerist Lab program. She is the co-author of the bestselling book The Small Firm Roadmap and is a regular guest and co-host of the weekly Lawyerist Podcast.

Featured Guests

Paul J Unger headshot

Paul Unger

Paul J. Unger is a nationally recognized speaker, author and thought leader in the legal technology industry.  He is one of the founding partners of Affinity Consulting and the author of dozens of legal technology manuals and publications, including recently published books, Tame the Digital Chaos – A Lawyer’s Guide to Distraction, Time, Task & Email Management, … and PowerPoint for Lawyers.  He has served as Chair of the ABA Legal Technology Resource Center and Chair of ABA TECHSHOW.  In his spare time, he likes to run, write, and restore historic homes. 

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Last updated February 7th, 2023