PR: Your Marketing Puzzle’s Missing Piece , with Pam Perry

Announcer:

Welcome to The Lawyerist Podcast, a series of discussions with entrepreneurs and innovators about building a successful law practice in today’s challenging and constantly changing legal market. Lawyerist supports attorneys, building client-centered, and future-oriented small law firms through community, content, and coaching both online and through the Lawyerist Lab. And now from the team that brought you The Small Firm Roadmap and your podcast hosts.

Zack Glaser (00:35):

Hi, I’m Zack Glaser.

Stephanie Everett (00:36):

And I’m Stephanie Everett. And this is episode 409 of the Lawyerist Podcast, part of the Legal Talk Network. Today I’m talking with publicist, Pam Perry, about why a small law firm might work with a PR firm.

Zack Glaser (00:48):

Today’s podcast is brought to you by Posh Virtual Receptionists, Lawyerist Lab, and Berkshire Receptionists We wouldn’t be able to do this show without their support, so stay tuned. We’ll tell you more about them later on.

Stephanie Everett (00:59):

So this show’s airing and it is the first week of the fourth quarter of 2022, which means everybody, welcome to Q4.

Zack Glaser (01:09):

It is always nice to be in Q4. It’s when everything, you know, rubber hits the road and stuff starts getting very, very fast from here on out.

Stephanie Everett (01:20):

Yeah. And so it is a great time to take stock of where you are as a business. , If you’re one of those people who wrote down some goals on January 1st, 2022 and you haven’t really checked in on them since, say February, now would be a good time to pull those out. I mean, I hope that you’re not doing that. I hope that you’re looking at your goals regularly and you’re actually, you have prioritized them and you have a plan for how you’re gonna get them. But I’m also being real that I know this is what happens in real life. And so it is a good chance to say, Okay, what have we accomplished so far this year? What else do we need to do to make this year a success? And what can we do in Q4 to get there?

Zack Glaser (02:00):

Well, so Stephanie, you know, with that, literally, what can people be doing? You know, if I’m a lawyer and I’m sitting down, I’m thinking, Okay, it’s Q4. I did put these goals together in, in q1, I have looked at them. How do I turn that corner to get to the end?

Stephanie Everett (02:16):

I think it’s good to set a day away. So our team, we actually go somewhere in person cuz we’re remote and we have two days where we do this work every quarter. And so it is nice if you can just take a day out of your office for the people who are in Lawyers lab, our coaching program, we do this virtually where we have a day already set and we say, Come and be with us and we’re gonna spend the day together doing this work. And then what you do during that day is just what I said. First take a look at where are you, what have you accomplished, what can we celebrate? Because you did get some things done. Cause sometimes we forget, sometimes we’re going so fast that we forget. And then when you look back and you might be like, Oh actually I did hire two people and we increased our revenue and we got a new marketing funnel running. And you just forget because you’re already onto the next thing.

Zack Glaser (03:10):

Right. Right. Cause my, my first thought when you say that is, okay, well that’s a day where I can look at all the things I didn’t get to, but you did get to some things. Yeah. And you, you are further along. So I, I like that celebrated at the, at the beginning.

Stephanie Everett (03:23):

Then what I want you to do is just take a bigger glance at where you wanna go, long term and short term. So in this case, maybe it was your annual goals for this year, but are we on a path to get you ultimately where you wanna be?

Zack Glaser (03:38):

One of the things that I didn’t think about when I was running my law firm a lot of times was that long term goal, that three year goal. I have a long, long term goal or, or I might not have, but how are my near term goals getting me to this thing that I, that I want?

Stephanie Everett (03:53):

Yeah. And I think it’s easy to think in terms of, of revenue and profits and, and that’s obviously an easy place to start. But for some of the lawyers that we work with, you know, they’ll come in and say, Gosh, it would be great if I could work four days a week. And so my challenge to them is, yes, well you could do that and it’s, it is a process. There are steps we’re gonna need to take to get you there, but what could you do this quarter? Could you leave Friday at four and shut down for the rest of the weekend? Like what one step could you take to start making that happen?

Zack Glaser (04:25):

Right. It’s really easy for three year goals or even one year goals to stay three year goals.

Stephanie Everett (04:32):

Exactly. So we wanna start that forward momentum and then you just really prioritize. So that’s really the, the process is looking at those goals, What can I do now? What one step could I take? So whether it’s leaving at four o’clock on Friday or writing some marketing content that you need to write a new blog post twice a month or whatever your number is. But you’re going to come up with now actionable steps that you can take that are gonna get you closer to the goal. And ideally what, in this case we’re talking about for the next three months, we have one quarter left. So let’s make a plan. What can you do this quarter to finish the year strong and feel like it was really a success even if you didn’t hit all the original goals. What can we do right now so that you can really feel great about where you are?

Zack Glaser (05:17):

So Stephanie, that’s, that’s what people can do preparing for Q4 and I know that’s important but all of a sudden it’s gonna be Q1 again. What can we do to kind of get started on that? Do we have anything that we need to do once we’ve gotten our Q4 in our heads?

Stephanie Everett (05:32):

Yeah. So here’s your everybody’s homework assignment because we do this obviously for everyone who’s in our lawyer lab program. Even if you’re not, what I want you to do is to put a date on your calendar now for when you’re going to do your 2023 prep. Because what we’ve been talking about is how you’re gonna finish strong in Q4. But we need to go ahead and know that this is also the quarter where we start planning for next year. And that’s gonna take some time. You know, you’re gonna look back at the whole year, you’re gonna start looking at those longer term goals. You’re gonna do all those things and we wanna go into 2023 also very strong. So go ahead if you haven’t done this before, where you take a day and do that planning, then put that on the calendar now for a day in December where you can make that happen. And it just turns out that on December 21st we’re gonna be doing our virtual planning retreat for Q1 as part of our Lawyerist Lab program. We do invite special guests to attend. There’s a small registration fee involved. But that’s a great way for you to come check out the program and join us. So put that date on the calendar if you wanna do it with us. December 21st is the day to put on your books.

Zack Glaser (06:43):

And now here is Stephanie’s conversation with Pam.

Pam Perry (06:46):

Hey there, this is Pam Perry. Thank you for having me today. I’m a publicist by trade. It’s been a publicist for about a couple of decades or so, but my very first job was in a law firm. And I was fired. I was 16 years old and I was to be their legal secretary, part-time legal secretary when I was in high school. I could do everything else but typing was not my thing. But I was really good at getting the job because I like talking <laugh>.

Stephanie Everett (07:20):

There you go. You did good on the interview but not the execution.

Pam Perry (07:26):

The execution. Oh this is way before computers we’re talking about typewriter electric with carbon. Oh yeah. Oh my god. With white out. It was bad. It was so, so they ended up being like, Oh well can you just run these papers to the court and can you just do some errands? And then when I remember one time, this is when I knew I was bad when I came back from the errand and the attorney was sitting there retyping what I had typed and I was like, so this is not working out right. <Laugh>,

Stephanie Everett (07:58):

It helped you learn your path. You knew that you weren’t meant to be a typist. <Laugh> I had, I had a similar story. My father in high school, he made me work in his office and I had a file warranty claims and I don’t know, it was just really boring. I just had a file all day and I got lots of paper cuts and I always said like I’m going to college, I don’t wanna file <laugh>. That was my whole goal in life.

Pam Perry (08:21):

<Laugh>. That was the goal, not to file

Stephanie Everett (08:23):

<Laugh>. Yeah. Well Pam, I’m so delighted to talk to you today and maybe to kick us off, help us cuz this is, I know what you do is how do you help someone in this case let’s just go with lawyers, find their story and make, make it interesting. Right.

Pam Perry (08:41):

Yeah. Yeah. That’s a really, really good question because when we are “pitching you to the media,” we’re not necessarily pitching to sound like an ad <laugh> on the radio or TV or even in in a magazine or newspaper. We really wanna hear your heart, we wanna hear your story. So that’s really coming from the most authentic place. Like why did you wanna become attorney? What was it that maybe in your youth that really made you angry that said, I really wanna do something about this. You wanna really dig deep and just that whole human interest portion, people connect with people they don’t connect with quote unquote, even though we’re in the age of branding, they don’t connect with brands, they connect with people. And so as much as you can tell a story about why you decided to be an attorney, maybe who some of your attorney role models are or judges or anything like that, you wanna be able to tell a story so that you can connect with the audience immediately.

(09:39):

Cause that’s all the media cares about. They really care about their audience. They don’t really care about you, they care about serving their audience. So that’s really what I want people to understand, to serve their audience, to give them something interesting, inspiring, something that will make them say like, You know what? I really like this person cuz that’s really all the media will do is really make it so that you are a person that someone will know, like, and trust. So you wanna tell a story. You don’t wanna say, well you know, I practiced this and I’m really skilled at that and I’m an expert at this. I went to this school and I was at the top of my school and that’s not gonna resonate. That’s good for your resume but not for a media interview.

Stephanie Everett (10:21):

Yeah. And I think so many people, I think they do have those stories, but we get a little bit in the trap of well I need to look like an attorney or be like an attorney. Like we had this idea of what it even means to be attorney and I mean I had someone at dinner last week say, you know, I really wanna dye my hair blue but I can’t because I work in the legal profession. And I was like dye your hair blue. Like who cares? Yeah. In today’s world, right? But we have this idea and she doesn’t go to court. Maybe there’s some old fashioned judges, but

Pam Perry (10:51):

Yeah, probably some old fashioned judges. But then I know some judges that are pretty progressive as well. So that might work for her if she goes in those type of courtrooms. So it just depends. The main thing is just to be you, to be authentically you and I think there’s no competition when you’re just, you people will either connect with you or they won’t. They’re going to love you and if they love you because you’re you, it’s gonna be easy to get more people. Yeah. It really will. Instead of just trying to figure out, I gotta look like a lawyer or sound like a lawyer. I remember when I was after I got fired as a secretary at the law firm in high school, I then got another job and I worked in a large law firm Dica here in Michigan. And I was a assistant librarian or I had shell books, right.

(11:40):

Basically I, the attorneys came in, This is old right? So I’m like, at this point we’re talking about the seventies and I was shell books and at one point I just think I wanted to be an attorney cuz I was like, oh this would be really, really cool. And so that’s why I was always like poking around trying to decide if I liked it. But they were reading so many books and they left them out. I said there’s no way I can read all these books and they’re pulling out all these books and you know, they, I didn’t help them research anything but I was just kind of look over their shoulder. And one of the things that I really noticed about what I did like was that I like the branding of when I told people where I work and they would say, Oh I’ve heard of that firm.

(12:19):

I was like, How’d you heard about it? So they have a good reputation, they have a good brand. I know some of the attorneys that work there or they, they hire a lot of my minority attorneys, you know, from particular school. I mean so the whole conversation around it is what I really got more into, into what they were actually doing, like what they were looking up cases for. So it was just really interesting, you know, just kind of understanding what it is that makes people tick is what I really was more interested in. And I think attorneys, they’re so focused. Obviously you go to law school and all of that, but you’ve gotta really focus on what makes people tick. And the media is really your pathway to all of those people because they’re the ones that’s gonna be creating buzz about you. So you have to know what makes people tick, be interested, be curious, and always make sure that you have the heart issue at hand. Like what makes you tick as well. And then try to relay that to the audience.

Stephanie Everett (13:18):

Yeah, I think when people hear PR, let’s be honest, it does sound a little bit like an old fashioned kind of profession, right? And so maybe the question is how does PR still relate in today’s world? Is there a role for a publicist or a PR firm today? Given that I think a lot of people probably assume it’s easy to get that access, you know, because of social media and all the other things we have. So yeah, I would love to hear your thoughts on it.

Pam Perry (13:51):

Yeah, gate keepers are definitely gone. So you can go directly to a reporter, producer, editor, you know, via Twitter, right? Via Instagram. You can slide in their dm. But the thing of it is anybody can really do PR if they know the right skillset. You know, you have a pitch, you study the audience, you find the right contact, you send them the information, you follow up maybe two or three, four times, you send them the right brand materials and people can do it. It’s like do they have the time? Do they have the patience? Because it’s gonna take just like with anything about seven touch points for people to really become really familiar with you, to want to have you on their media outlet on their platform. So do you have the time to follow up with maybe say 10 to 12 different pitches that you have to contact seven or eight times each.

(14:45):

And then to figure all of that scheduling and all of those things out. And then we’re not even talking about the part that really, before you even pitch, to really go in and decide is this the right audience that I know that my ideal client will be reading, listening to or watching? And so you have to then probably do a little bit of homework, listen to the podcast, listen to the radio show, read that newspaper, read that magazine, follow them on Twitter, see what the last, See you have to really be that investigative reporter before you even pitch. When you do talk to the reporter or the producer, you wanna make sure that you have something in common. That you build a rapport. And so it’s easier to talk to someone when you have something in common. And the only way you know if you have something in common is to study them.

Stephanie Everett (15:36):

Got it.

Pam Perry (15:37):

So you’ve gotta study them. And so one pitch, you may study them for 15, 20 minutes and that’s one maybe you wanna do 10 a week. So you’ve got 15, 20 minutes on each one that you’re studying. And then you’ve got craft a very individual pitch for each particular outlet. Yeah. Because you’re pitching people not that outlet, not the Wall Street Journal. You’re pitching the reporter at the Wall Street Journal wherever. So you wanna make sure that you’re doing that. And so people say, yeah it is an old profession but it’s changed so much because of Google. And I always tell my clients, I said, If you’re not found in Google, you don’t exist. So you wanna really combine PR with SEO as well.

Stephanie Everett (16:19):

Yeah, that makes sense. My daughter last week for some reason decided to Google me and my husband and she’s like, Dad, mom’s more famous than you but it’s just cause I had more cause of the podcast. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I do more. But that’s, that would be a good homework assignment for everyone. Have your kids Google you and what comes up and what do they see? They might even just learn a little bit about your job.

Pam Perry (16:42):

That’s true. And and it’s so important, Google has spaces for like 10. And so a lot of people say, well someone has my name. I don’t know if I’ll be found, I don’t know if my brand stands out. So I said, Google is like a machine. The more you feed it, the more you’ll find that your name will be in there and you’ll push all the other people down. You’ll never go away. The other people will never go away. But you will be up on page one. Yeah. By having frequent PR opportunities, podcasts, radio, newspapers, blogs, if you, if writing articles, all those things to feed the machine cuz it’s, it always wants a lot of activity and a lot of words it reads words. So the more that you feed it, the more you’ll be “Google famous”

Stephanie Everett (17:30):

<Laugh>. Yeah. You know, earlier you were talking about how important it is that when you pitch it makes sense and we have this show and, and it’s always very obvious when someone sends me pitches and they really have never listened to the show because I can immediately say like, yep, that’s not relevant. Just because we have a lawyer audience doesn’t mean I necessarily want lawyers on talking about, you know, how, how contracts work for example But because we, our audience is lawyers, you know, and they’re listening to this, is it relevant for them to be thinking about getting themselves in local media as a way to promote their business? I think a lot of times we might think, well if I had a famous case, if I had a really interesting, you know, case, but they don’t always wanna talk about those cases, you know, and be the sub, have their clients be the subject of an of a story. So how can we kind of twist that and use local media opportunities to promote ourselves and to promote our business without being the headline of like our client committed a bad crime

Pam Perry (18:29):

<Laugh>. Yeah. You don’t wanna do that to the client. So the main thing, especially for local media is to pick like your 24 hour say news station, right? Your 24-hour radio station. Listen to them and become like a source for them or become that I guess you would say their their friend that they can always go and ask certain questions for. So it may not be your case, it may be another case and they just need someone that’s on the outside to ask their opinion. Same thing with the morning shows. Just watch them and see what it is that are their hot buttons and then from time to time follow them on Twitter comment, tell ’em good coverage. Tell ’em that you know what this really good but you probably wanna think of something like this because of your background of an attorney. They have a different quote unquote PR term spin on something, on a spin of a story.

(19:18):

So you won’t just wanna tell them that, especially a newspaper reporter, they are always looking for a deeper dive than say broadcast. They’re looking for a deeper dive. So you can always send them information. Actually they love you to send them information via email or LinkedIn and then just say, Hey, I’ve read the story that you said, but one of the things that you may wanna consider is probably interviewing A, B and C. Or maybe you wanna look at this particular case that was very similar to this five years ago and it gives that reporter look like a hero. You know, you wanna make them look like a hero or the journalists look like a hero. So they’ll look like a hero because they’ll have more information that they can share to their audience and then their boss will be happy. Cause you always wanna think about that they have a job and they wanna look good to their boss, they wanna win like a top journalism award. They want that. So the more that the more information they have, you are could be their secret weapon in their pocket. And so you wanna build a rapport. You don’t have to build a rapport with every reporter in town, but find two or three that they can always call you and then they can say confidentially, what do you think about A, B and C? You know, So you wanna be that kind of friend to the media.

Stephanie Everett (20:31):

I love it. Let’s take a quick break and hear from our sponsors and when we come back we’ll dig in more to the role of PR for your law firm.

Zack Glaser:

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Stephanie Everett (22:43):

I’m back with Pam Perry and I think what you just said was so important because you can build yourself up as an expert on a topic in the local media. You don’t have to necessarily be talking about your cases. I think the other thing maybe myth around the idea of PR is we sometimes might assume is just for the big companies, you know, it’s just for the large firms and how can a smaller business really use this to their advantage? So I guess I would love for you to speak to that and maybe what a firm should consider if they wanna work with a PR firm or a publicist like yourself. What should they be looking for?

Pam Perry (23:22):

Yeah, so one of the main things too is that you wanna make sure that every touchpoint that a potential client will come in contact with you is positive, right? So a publicist will help you make sure that you’re positioned in a very positive life. One of the ways besides really pitching you to the media is maybe pitching you to awards, right? So there are a lot of awards, just like I had had a particular client that was 39 and she was about to turn 40 and she really, really wanted to be seen as an expert as an attorney 40 under 40. So there was a 40 under 40 awards and so she was an attorney, so we wrote the award, we told her to get the photos and all the things, all the packaging right to position her under the 4,004 and she won. And so she actually won.

(24:10):

That was like a big cool. Then there was another one where it was the Rising Stars Award, right? For attorneys and she won that as well. So you go to a publicist for their expertise because they know how to pitch, but then also too, they have different connections or they have different ways that they can see things differently than you because an attorney is working like really on the cases. So they must say, hey, you need to go speak at this particular event because speaking to an audience is a great way for them to get to know you live. So it could be some kind of fair, charity, sponsoring things is really, really good, especially in the local community. If you sponsor something for the high school or sponsor something, people will feel better about you. So don’t just like work with your head down all the time.

(24:56):

It’s just like, well I just do good work, but you have to get out there the name of my podcast, get out there and get known. You have to get out there. So whether you’re sponsoring something for a, the local cheerleader team or you know a heart association, be a part of the community so they can actually see that you are someone that they can call on, right? So you wanna do that. A publicist though really at the main point is gonna be like a council, kind of like the way an attorney is. They will consult with you, tell you the best ways to really clean up maybe some of your branding to really help you with some of your social media to write regular press releases to help you find hooks for certain things to find what it is that in your particular market where, who you need to connect with.

(25:40):

So they’ll help you think those things through and you just have to really just like show up and speak because at that point the publicist like really doing all the, the leg work for you, guiding you saying, okay, this is where you show up, this is what you need to do. But I think a lot of times people think that, oh, publicist will just make sure that I’m gonna be on CNN or whatever. But it’s, it’s so much more than that because you’re, I do a client may not be on scene. Right, Right. But you, you wanna make sure that you’re involved in your local community.

Stephanie Everett (26:11):

Yeah. And so if somebody’s thinking about working with someone, what are a couple things that they should think about or consider before they hire?

Pam Perry (26:19):

Yeah, the main thing is roi. So you wanna make sure that you have enough bandwidth to make sure that it’s worth it. So say a basic publicist on a retainer is $2,500 a month. So just saying, just depending on the market, $2,500 a month. So do you have the bandwidth one to know that if you get two or three clients from the lead generation that PR will do that, it will pay for itself. And then also too, you wanna make sure that you have the time to do the interviews. So that’s really, really key. So if you hire a publicist and they are going to be on retainer and they wanna book you in as many places as possible, say an average of 10 a month, Okay, if you don’t have space in your calendar for 10 media interviews a month, then it’s probably not a good time.

(27:08):

Then maybe you should probably work with someone that just says, Well I just want to just get on podcast. You know, something like that. You know, two a month. Right. You know, you have to look at your bandwidth and then what it is at the roi. So if you are spending $2,500 a month, obviously you’d like to generate at least $5,000 a month in order to make it worth it. So, you know, looking at it, do you have the capacity to do that? So that’s why I wanna say PR is a part of marketing. It’s not like a sales generator, but it is part of it. But the other mix of things, so you looking at the person’s website, do they have a conversion tool on their website? You know, those kind of things. So it’s part of it, but we, we wanna look at the entire cuz the PR is just a portion.

Stephanie Everett (27:52):

Yeah. So it sounds like if someone was interested in potentially working with a firm, they should really make sure they understand what the scope of services was going to be and what this person, the publicist can do for them so that it aligns one with their overall marketing strategy and also, like you said, they have the time to then commit and fulfill those obligations cuz otherwise Yeah, you know, you’re just wasting your money.

Pam Perry (28:14):

Yes. And you can get a bad reputation as a person that’s like always saying, Oh, I can’t make that, or you’re canceling interviews, that’s really bad. Yeah. So never do that.

Stephanie Everett (28:22):

I think that’s super helpful advice and I think, you know, what you’ve said probably has got some people thinking like, I didn’t realize maybe this should be a part of my marketing strategy and it might be worthwhile to think about working with someone. So I think that’s really helpful. Before we go, one of the things you talk about in your book is how you believe knowledge is power and everyone should be developing themselves. So I’m just curious as a fellow, you know, business owner and podcaster, what are you doing right now to work on yourself? Like is there a skill or something that, that you’re working on learning?

Pam Perry (28:58):

So this is a thing now, I love social media. Not everybody does, but because I’ve been in PR for so long, I see it as a tool. Social media, long time ago, like when MySpace was around, I said, Ooh, this could be really good to promote. So I’m on TikTok right now and I’m part of a cohort right now of TikTok and it’s four weeks long and we’re learning the things of how to really leverage TikTok for your business. So that’s something that’s brand new and I’m not like a dancer, so I’m not gonna get on there and dance even though I do love to dance, but I’m gonna dance. The other thing, I have a coach, I always have have a coach as well. So I have a coach that I speak to every single week to keep me on track and that sort of thing. But yeah, the, the thing right now is like this top cohort that I’m in, it’s roughly probably about 60 of us in there. It’s just hilarious just to figure out, like that’s a whole thing. A TikTok strategy is a whole nother thing. Yeah. But I need to learn it in order to share it with potential, you know, clients that they’d say, I wanna do TikTok, I gotta know something about it.

Stephanie Everett (29:57):

I love that and, and it’s great to hear this, you know, even season’s professionals are still out there learning the new thing. And I, Yeah, I have thought about it. I have a, a lot of our listeners know Ryan, one of our business coaches, and he keeps pushing me. He’s like, You need to get on TikTok, Stephanie, And I’m like, oh my God.

Pam Perry (30:15):

It’s the fastest growing. It is really fast growing has a really big engagement if you’re doing it right, It really does. I’ve never seen anything like it. It’s amazing.

Stephanie Everett (30:24):

Right. But you’re also not just jumping on and doing some TikTok videos, you’re actually going through a process to learn how it works and how to leverage it, which is one of the things we really promote around here, because lawyers love to like throw things on the wall and do random things to see what sticks.

Pam Perry (30:39):

Gotta get a strategy.

Stephanie Everett (30:40):

Exactly.

Pam Perry (30:41):

You’ve gotta have a strategy. Don’t, if not, you’ll be frustrated and fried out, you know, burn out and fried because it’s like I’m doing all the things, I’m doing the Instagram reel, I’m doing TikTok and I’m doing LinkedIn, and it’s like, okay, but you have no strategy, so that’s why you’re feeling burn out. So no, no, no. You do need to have a whole strategy of how it works.

Stephanie Everett (31:00):

Yeah. Anything I didn’t ask you that I should have?

Pam Perry (31:04):

I would say when you’re looking at a publicist, look at what their background is and see if their contacts match the type of audience that you wanna reach. So say for instance, there could be a publicist that does celebrities or publicist, it does, I know restaurants, so publicist said, does authors and speakers, which is probably what I do, you know, you want to find what were their previous clients because they will have media contacts in that area just because a publicist is like, Oh, well they were the publicist for, I don’t know, some famous person. Well that doesn’t mean they’ll have media contacts for your area. Yeah. So you wanna make sure and ask those questions. Who have you done publicity before? And if they’re very similar to your area.

Stephanie Everett (31:51):

Yeah. Very cool. Thanks so much for being with us. If people wanna find you and listen to your podcast, where should they go?

Pam Perry (31:59):

Very easy. Pamperrypr.Com. They can listen to the podcast, it’s called Get Out There, Get Known, and I interview media friends as well so you can kind of hear directly from the horse’s mouth what they’re looking for.

Stephanie Everett (32:11):

Awesome. Thanks for being with me today.

Pam Perry (32:13):

Thank you Stephanie. Thank you so much.

OUTRO 

Announcer:

The Lawyerist Podcast is edited by Britany Felix. Are you ready to implement the ideas we discuss here into your practice? Wondering what to do next? Here are your first two steps. First. If you haven’t read The Small Firm Roadmap yet, grab the first chapter for free at Lawyerist.com/book. Looking for help beyond the book? Let’s chat about whether our coaching communities, are right for you. Head to Lawyerist.com/community/lab to schedule a 10-minute call with our team to learn more. The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not endorsed by Legal Talk Network. Nothing said in this podcast is legal advice for you.