Episode Notes

You’re no longer in start-up mode for your firm. You’ve grown and stretched and you’re ready to level up. So what’s next? 

In this episode, Stephanie talks with Karen Graves, Lawyerist’s newest Lab coach, about how to navigate your business’s teenage phase. Karen explains this phase and how to find support for your firm. She details how to reconnect to your genius, renew your identity as a leader, and learn to let go. 

If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? Check out our coaching community to see if it's right for you.

  • 8:10. Defining the teenage phase.
  • 10:35. Assess where you are.
  • 27:28. Working with a business coach.



Welcome to The Lawyerist Podcast, a series of discussions with entrepreneurs and innovators about building a successful law practice in today’s challenging and constantly changing legal market. Lawyerist supports attorneys, building client-centered, and future-oriented small law firms through community, content, and coaching both online and through the Lawyerist Lab. And now from the team that brought you The Small Firm Roadmap and your podcast hosts


Jennifer Whigham (00:35):

Hi, I’m Jennifer Whigham.


Stephanie Everett (00:36):

And I’m Stephanie Everett. And this is episode 421 of the Lawyerist Podcast, part of the Legal Talk Network. Today I’m talking with our newest Lab coach, Karen Graves, about law firms in their teenage years.


Jennifer Whigham (00:48):

Today’s podcast is brought to you by Posh Virtual Receptionists, Berkshire Receptionists, and Lawyerist Lab. We wouldn’t be able to do this show without their support. Stay tuned. We’ll tell you a little bit more about them later on. Stephanie. So in this episode, you were talking with one of our newest Lab coaches, Karen Graves, who we were just saying brings such amazing energy to the team. We’re so glad she’s here. But it also got me thinking kind of about coaching in general and how we ask questions. And I remember you had a story that was kind of related to this that was really interesting. Do you remember what it was?


Stephanie Everett (01:24):

Oh yeah. So <laugh>,


Jennifer Whigham (01:26):



Stephanie Everett (01:27):

So some of you know that I have a dog. In fact, many of you have heard her on the show because occasionally she barks, I’m not gonna lie. And since we had another dog pass a couple months ago who was very old and it was sad, but we’re dealing with it.


Jennifer Whigham (01:42):

You’re over it.


Stephanie Everett (01:42):

Yeah, we’re not over it, but you know it. Okay. But ever since Elvis died, Millie has just been terrible and she’s been barking nonstop. So you probably have heard her on the show more recently cuz it doesn’t matter what I do, I feel like she barks wherever she is. So at my witn, I finally decided to send her away to boarding school. So that, yes, so she’s with a trainer for three weeks and learning all the good habits and I can’t wait. She’s like, I get to see her on video and she’s doing great.



But in the setup before I sent her off, I had a consultation with the trainer and she was just going through all these questions and one of the questions was she asked, how does Millie do on a leash? And I immediately just started going into justification mode of like, well, we don’t take her on as many walks. We have a fenced yard and if I need to take her on more walks, for sure I will. Or if my daughter needs to hear that she needs to walk every day, maybe that would be a great message. And I’m just going off. And finally she kind of says, you know what? I actually don’t care if you take her on walks. I don’t walk two of my dogs because I also have a big yard. I really just wanted to know if she’s on a walk, does she pull on her leash? And I started thinking about that and I was like, yeah, boy, I wrapped up a lot of emotion. And just that question.


Jennifer Whigham (02:57):

You went on a journey?


Stephanie Everett (02:59):

Yeah, I was clearly feeling judged. But then in our profession as Lawyerist, we have to ask sensitive questions. And my job as a business coach, I sometimes have to ask sensitive questions. And one of the things we talk about at Lawyerist and in our book is this idea of leading with empathy <affirmative> and how do you lead your clients with an empathetic voice and an empathetic mind? And I think it starts with realizing and remembering that sometimes your most innocent questions can feel like just zingers and attacks on the people that you’re asking. So you ask a client this question and you’re just used to buzzing through the motions and they’re just like, oh my gosh, I’m the worst person in the world. And almost feel like embarrassed to even answer it.


Jennifer Whigham (03:46):

Yeah, that’s so interesting because you just get in a routine of asking the same thing to the same people and it’s nothing to you, but it’s the first time they’re hearing that question.


Stephanie Everett (03:55):

And sometimes as a business coach, I often have to ask questions and I often will tell people, look, there’s no judgment in this. I’m gonna ask you some questions cuz we’re gonna figure out where you are in your business and you wouldn’t be here if all this stuff was figured out. So I don’t expect you to have all these things in place or to know what’s happening. That’s the whole reason we’re here. So just know, let’s get through it together. Does that sound good? And they’re always kind of smiling and laughing, but then inevitably the question will come up and they’re just like, Ugh. Oh no, this is the one <laugh>.


Jennifer Whigham (04:27):

But it sounds like just that one-minute caveat before you start asking the questions can change the whole mood of the conversation.


Stephanie Everett (04:34):

I think so. And I know that it applies to our lawyer work as well. So I think just putting that empathetic hat on when we can and remembering that our clients are nervous and sensitive and worried and feeling judged even if they haven’t done anything wrong and that we just kind of approach it with that mindset.


Jennifer Whigham (04:55):

Yeah, that’s great advice. And now here is your interview with Karen.


Karen Graves (05:04):

Hi, I’m Karen Graves and I am the newest Lab coach here at Lawyerist. I’m really excited to be here and to bring forth some of my business experience over the last 15 years plus.


Stephanie Everett (05:18):

Yeah. Welcome Karen. We are likewise, very excited to have you on the team. This was the hardest round of interviewing we’ve ever done because we got so many amazing candidates and it was awesome. And you rose to the top very quickly and we knew we wanted to hire you right away cuz you’re amazing


Karen Graves (05:35):

<laugh>. Thank you. Thank you. I was like, please, oh please. Oh please. I really want this position because it just seemed like such a great company environment and you’re doing so many tremendous great things or we are now. Yes. we tremendous great things. <laugh>.


Stephanie Everett (05:49):

So just because you are new, share with the audience, what have you been up to before you joined the lawyer esteem and tell us a little bit more about your background.


Karen Graves (05:58):

So for the past 15 years, I have been pretty much independently business coaching and a wide range of different clients. I love to work with entrepreneurs, people who have this great vision and dream and they just wanna get it started and grow it and embark on this journey called entrepreneurship. And so that’s what I’ve done for the past 15 years. And prior to that I worked with a Fortune 100 company and I was in sales training and development. I was managing sales trainers. And so I took that and really brought it into entrepreneurship and quickly learned and starting my own business that you need to have a wide breadth of knowledge and experience and you need to learn a lot of things. And so I wanted to always bring that forward cuz I believe that entrepreneurs create this wonderful world that we have.


Stephanie Everett (06:49):

And you love sales.


Karen Graves (06:51):

I love it, which is so crazy. I used to hate sales, used to hate it. And then one day it just clicked. I’m like, oh, I’m just having conversations that help people make decisions. This is fun.


Stephanie Everett (07:03):

I love that. If you were listening, you should rewind and hear that again, sales is not a dirty word. It’s not ugly, it’s just a conversation. You have some way to help people and this is your way to help them.


Karen Graves (07:15):

Yeah, my, it’s so funny that you say that. Cause my first iteration, one of my early iterations was my company was called Your Sales Fix cuz I wanted to help entrepreneurs learn how to sell and sell confidently. And that was my slogan. It was like, sales is not a dirty word, it’s a necessary one.


Stephanie Everett (07:32):

Yeah, I love that. And I’m so excited that you’re gonna be helping our Labsters perfect their sales techniques. In fact, you’re gonna be doing a study group on that in December where you’re gonna help people think about their sales conversations and nurturing afterwards the whole process, which is just great expertise to bring to the community. But we’re not gonna talk about sales today, even though have you back. We’ll do sales another time. I promise. Today we’re gonna talk about, I like this framework, we’re gonna talk about the teenage stage of business.


Karen Graves (08:05):



Stephanie Everett (08:05):

<laugh>. Yeah. So what are we thinking of when we think of teenage businesses?


Karen Graves (08:10):

<laugh> businesses that are in that teenage stage? You’re past the starting stage. I always look at things in the frame of life, the life cycle. And the toddler stage to me is when the business is getting up and it’s falling down and it’s getting up and it’s falling down and it’s starting to get its sea legs and then it’s starting to walk along. And then you have this little adolescence period, and then the teenage years hit. And the teenage years tend to be quite wonky because the business seemingly looks good and seemingly is rolling along. However, there’s a lot of kinks in the system that are felt internally. So just like a teenage human where sometimes you look at them and then maybe not going through <laugh>, the best gross process. They do look a little wonky, but they seem to have it together. But internally they’re mishmash. And so this is the stage where I think owners are starting to recognize that there’s more support needed, that their time is shortened, that their energy is lower and there’s opportunities that they wanna go forward, but they can’t quite figure out how to get there. What got them to where they are is not gonna take them to that next level. And they’re highly aware of it and it’s a steady constant push pull cuz they’re not quite sure how to fix that.


Stephanie Everett (09:34):

Yeah, I think that resonates and that internal struggle where they’re confident because they’ve built this thing so far, but then they’re still feeling all this other anxiety and lack of confidence and am I on the right path? And so what’s one of maybe the first things that someone in that stage should be that they’re dealing with and thinking about?


Karen Graves (09:54):

They’re short on time. So they’re thinking, gosh, I would do this. I would do this great next thing, but I don’t have the time and I don’t have the bandwidth. And it’s very evident to them that they probably need some internal help that they need to start hiring. That brings on a whole nother realm of talk about the confidence. Can I trust somebody to come in my business and do the things that I need them to do? How much am I gonna have to manage? I don’t really wanna manage, I don’t managing people I, I just want people to come in and already know what to do and to be proactive and to run the business themselves.


Stephanie Everett (10:32):

This all sounds very


Karen Graves (10:35):

<laugh>. And so there’s low confidence, low trust in others. There’s all sorts of time constraints because they’re just running so hard and they don’t have the time to slow down and kind of reassess where they even are. So it’s almost like they’ve lost sight of where they’re ultimately trying to go and they’ve gotten kind of in the thick of things and they’re just in the wilderness in the weeds. And they know that where they wanna go is on the other side, but it’s may have changed some. And so they don’t have the time to really slow down and start to objectively look at the business again. And at this point they’re probably revenue-wise or stable, which presents opportunities. And this is where the person, the owner is recognizing that there’s a shift in where they should be operating. They’re still doing some more of that technician stuff. They’re still doing all the things, but they wanna elevate to the leader. And so again, this is where that internal struggles, cuz it’s like, I know I should be operating at the CEO. I know I should be operating in my zone of genius, which may have gotten lost to even what that is anymore. I know I should be isolating myself in some way. I can’t figure that out. I can’t figure out what to do first in order to stop being the person doing all the things.


Stephanie Everett (11:57):

Yeah, I agree. I hear that frustration, that overwhelm. I think it shows up a lot. Yes, it shows up as overwhelm and it’s because they are maybe even just overwhelmed with these ideas of, I know I need to be doing things differently and I just don’t know how. And that’s what gives us this sense of despair.


Karen Graves (12:19):

Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I think it’s where the laundry list of to do items never stops. I recently read an email from another business coach and I love what he pointed out in this cuz he was talking about this particular stage and he was saying that at this point, for all of us probably in the world right now, people are in decision-comas almost. You’re so tired. We are exhausted, we’ve made so many decisions. And for the person in this stage of business, for the owner in this stage of the business, every day is a litany of decisions. And so it’s not even the decisions of how you’re handling your clients and just servicing your clients, it’s the everyday decision of what do I need to do right now in order to get this day through da, da, da. And so you’re exhausted. And so that in and of itself also creates a huge piece of a block resistance, frustration, and overwhelm inside of a business.


Stephanie Everett (13:24):

So what’s a step that somebody can take when they’re in that place and they’re feeling all these things? How do you start to make a shift to get yourself out of it?


Karen Graves (13:34):

It’s a powerful exercise to slow down and to unplug. Find a space where you can unplug. It can be 24 hours, it can be 48 hours. It can be do yourself a retreat weekend, something where you take that time to assess what it is that you’re building, what is that you really want? And you’re looking for what’s already working. That’s great. What needs to be improved, what needs to be enhanced? And this is where you can now really look at your processes, your systems, see the holes of where you are overextending yourself, and you should have somebody else in there. This is the person in the mirror moment where you get to get real honest about where are things wonderful and where are things really falling short? And if I had my wishlist of who I could hire and what I really wanted and they all go in line with my vision, then what does that really look like?



And if you don’t do it by yourself, and I always recommend that you don’t do this exercise by yourself because it’s hard to be objective. And so finding somebody who can sit and hold this space with you while you’re going through the exercise of reconnecting to your original vision and then rebuilding it because it, it’s totally different from when you started. And I’d say totally different because you’re different. You’ve been through some things <laugh>. And so as you’re going through some things, you may have new ideas and new ways that you’re envisioning yourself. For 15 years, I would’ve just said, oh, I’m all about sales and all about sales and all about sales. And yes, that is a primary focus for me, but I’m also, I’ve built skills in marketing, I’ve built skilled in copywriting, I’ve built skills. And so now I get to reassess and say, well, when I really think about how much I love about what I do, where do I put my energy? What are the things that I love to do? And so for owners too, it’s kind of reconnecting to what your genius really is. And I take my clients through exercises to isolate what that is and then build your business around your genius by hiring experts in the areas of other areas of genius that aren’t yours. And that’s how you can get your business going. But you gotta take the time to slow down to make an honest assessment about where you are and where you wanna be.


Stephanie Everett (15:56):

Yeah. Awesome advice. Well, that’s a great place to take a quick break. We’ll hear from our sponsors and we come back, we’ll dig into the next dilemma that teenage business faces.


Zack Glaser:

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Sara Muender:

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Sound interesting? Schedule a 10-minute, no-pressure call with me, Sara, by clicking the link in the show notes or visit lawerist.com/coaching.   


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Stephanie Everett (18:08):

All right, I am back with Karen, our newest Lab business coach, and we’ve been talking about once you’ve kind of gotten outta those toddler years of your business and now you’re in the wonky teenage space. And we’re both parents, so this really resonates with us. <laugh>,


Karen Graves (18:25):

We know that teenage space, yes,


Stephanie Everett (18:28):

I’m just tiptoeing in, I’m on the tween space still, but it sometimes feels like, oh my God, is this what we have to look forward to? It’s terrible.


Karen Graves (18:36):

Yes. As somebody who’s in the midst of coming outta the teenage space, I have a 16 going on, 17-year old, I can tell you that it’s gonna be an interesting ride. Yes, I know. To say that I know it’s beautiful in all its ways and sometimes not so much, but it’s gonna be an interesting ride


Stephanie Everett (18:56):

Maybe sometimes. That’s how we feel as business owners too, right? It’s beautiful and interesting and it is a ride of ups and downs and highs and lows. And I know as we’re both business coaches, we experience that with our clients. We’re kind of holding that space for them and guiding them in a way of helping them navigate through it. So maybe picking up on that theme, what’s another way or another aspect of this that you see in the clients that you’re working with and how you might help them?


Karen Graves (19:28):

Yeah, the other thing I see oftentimes is that clarity is so necessary. That’s why I was saying you kind of gotta sit down and have that clarity cuz clarity is currency, right? Your business cannot grow beyond you, the capacity that you have. And so if you’re trying to build this tremendous firm and you’re thinking that I never have to hire somebody, well that you can, but it’s gonna be a very small organization, it probably won’t get to where you want because no businesses are built in a vacuum. So you wanna make sure that that clarity provides that currency, know who to get in there. But the other piece is you’re gonna be pushed against your edge. This is gonna be a reflection of who you are as a leader and how you operate as a leader. And you’re going to have some wake up call moments, especially when you start to see how people respond to you, when you do start this hiring process.



And I can tell you, for every single client I have ever coached during this stage, they’ve had to wrestle with hiring the wrong hires. And so they hire people that seemingly can do the job and disappoint them. They hire people who maybe do things that lack integrity or don’t necessarily align with their values. They hire people who are amazing, who leave <laugh>, right? But it’s how you handle all of the different situations that is going to be the difference between having a business that people want to be a part of, or having a business that people are constantly churning and burning through because they are not finding that this is the culture space. So really thinking about what is the culture that I’m even bringing? You’re now building your own family. You know, get to pick and choose. We always say you can’t pick your own family.



Well, guess what? In your business you can. And so you get to choose the people that you wanna spend time with that you feel that are gonna value your business as you do. And another wake up call is reminding yourself as a leader and as a business owner that nobody’s gonna love your baby as much as you do. Nobody’s gonna love your business. So even if with the best hires, you’re gonna have people who really, really admire it, who really respect it, and they’re gonna feel like they love it as much. But when push comes to shove, it’s still your business. And so you don’t wanna necessarily let go of the reigns completely. You wanna find people you can trust. But on that leadership tangent, one of my favorite quotes, and I’ve quoted this many times, so if you work with me, you will hear this quote at some point.



And it may come around a time that you’re having a challenging moment with team, where I’m gonna say to you that this comes from, Remember the Titans of the football football movie with Denzel Washington at Al, and it’s ugh, one of my favorites. And it’s when the two captains were fighting each other, and the one captain told the other captain, you have such a bad attitude. And he said, “attitude is a reflection of leadership captain.” And so when you have those moments when it seems like there’s dissension in the ranks, it’s a great time to say, well, what happened in my leadership? What could I have done differently? And it’s not a blame and it’s not a bad thing, it’s just a moment of saying, being curious with yourself and saying you’re like, what could I have done differently? What could have been communicated that I didn’t mean to communicate?



And as a leader, this is also where you’re gonna have that opportunity to strengthen your communication skills because communication is gonna be everything. We often walk around with, this is what I expect and this is what I think is gonna have happen. And that however you’re having these conversations with yourself, and it may not be getting to the people who need to hear it. So stretching yourself in leadership, stretching yourself in communication, stretching yourself in compassion and empathy and all of the things that are gonna help you lead yourself better. Giving yourself grace, a lot of grace, a lot, a lot of grace, and learning how you operate in the world and how you’re perceived. So the emotional intelligence piece is also gonna be very, very important here too.


Stephanie Everett (23:39):

Yeah, I mean, I think as you’re talking, what I’m hearing and what’s really resonating for me, just like the teenager is developing so much internally. So are you, as a leader, there’s a lot of growth that’s happening. I mean, I’ll give an example of myself. For many years I was the only person who did the sales for our Lab community. If you wanted to join Lawyerist Lab, you ended up talking to me. And then we got to the point, which was great and exhausting <laugh>, like, let’s just be honest,



And I know Lawyerist out there, this will resonate. So then you get other people on the team who can do it, and we’ve done that. Now, if you wanna join Lab, you’ll talk to Karen or Sara or Amy. And I’ve noticed even myself in the last couple of weeks that I’m like, I get to let go of that. And so you challenge yourself. There’s nothing really that I need to do anymore except allow you guys to be your great, amazing selves and pick up the ball and take it that next step. And as a leader, I’m finding, I’m still having those conversations with myself. It’s okay, you can let go. You do this, they’re doing great, they’re running on their own, but it’s like the process doesn’t stop. And so I’ve been through every stage of that process as a leader where I was the one doing it myself, and then we had to hire somebody else to do it.



And it took us a couple, we didn’t get it right the first time. And so we’ve had a couple of people in that role. And then finally it clicks and now, and now we’re ready to document the systems and make sure they’re all right. It’s an iteration, but I’ll just share with everybody, you as the leader are changing every step of that too. You’re iterating yourself and you’re growing and you’re realizing and letting go or communicating or training or reevaluating or saying, wait, this got wonky and now we gotta pull back and try it again a different way. And it’s constant and it’s exciting, but it’s hard.


Karen Graves (25:38):

Yeah, it’s a renewal of identity. You’re starting to become somebody in a different role and you’re shifting into a different space and it can be uncomfortable. You’re saying, wow, other people can handle this. That moment of, should I be doing something differently? This doesn’t feel right. <laugh> like, did I make a mistake? And that freedom, but not necessarily being comfortable with the freedom, but that’s very much like a teenager. My daughter’s just now driving and being able to say, yes, you can go ahead and you can drive yourself to the mall. And for her to be like, wait, I can drive myself to the mall and nobody has to tell me that I can’t go to the mall. And it’s a freedom feeling, but it’s also, it’s new and it’s uncomfortable. And so recognizing that that’s just gonna be a natural part of the process as you go.



And that’s where that grace comes in. Give yourself grace if you feel weird and strange and out of a fish outta water. And it’s the beautiful part. It’s an opportunity for rediscovery, really rediscovery and really stepping into a new level of confidence, confidence and competence. And the beautiful place about it is when you get to this space where you start to recognize yourself as the expert in, again, when we do it, when we’re in that toddler stage, suddenly it’s like, and I’m the business coach, Boohoo, you know, take on this title. Well, now you’re the ceo, and that’s gonna have a different feeling. And so now you get to get to that place where you’re just like, I’m the ceo. Look at that <laugh>. Yeah, I’m no longer just an owner. I am the CEO of an organization operation, a firm, a practice. And so it’s a different space to get used


Stephanie Everett (27:28):

To. Yeah, we talk about our coaching program a lot, but there’s still questions. There’s still curiosity. Well, what does that really look like? And how is this going to help me? And so you’ve been a business coach now for 15 years and you’re bringing all that experience to our community, which I’m so excited about. How do you answer that question and how do you tell people what it’s like to work with a business coach? And given this all the stuff happening in the teenage years, where do you plug in and how do you help?


Karen Graves (27:58):

Yeah, this is, I think for some of the most powerful client relationships that I’ve had, it’s a space of trusting that there’s a process that can be done, that you don’t have to do everything. And it’s a hard belief system to build because at this point you’ve probably been doing everything and you’ve starting to see some progress. But the thing is, when you work with a business coach, wherever you’re trying to go, the coach isn’t necessarily going to have all the answers for you. But wherever you’re trying to go, we believe you have the answers and you’re gonna get there faster than if you could go by yourself. Teenage years can be make it or break it years as well. We’re usually celebrating like, oh, I’ve been in business three, five years and I got past those initial years where they say, all the businesses fail and look at me.



I’m really starting to get some footing under me. However, you can still be in a very vulnerable place that critical decisions, if not made well and thoroughly can really hurt your business. And so a business coach can give you that objectivity of a couple of things. One, when it makes sense to move forward in different opportunities, how you can go about getting the proper support you need with an objective eye, rather an emotional space. They can also help you ahead of your business two years, three years, five years out. So you’re not just doing, you’re stuck in the minutiae. You could get back into that long term vision planning. And then also too, just having that person who’s holding you accountable to do the different steps and strategies that are gonna help advance your business when it comes to holding you accountable. We can get so distracted by bobbles.



So at this point, when you’re in this growth stage, opportunities seem plentiful, and because revenue is flowing, you start to really look critically at what are some of the growth techniques I can use, some of the growth strategies, what are some of the opportunities I can use? How can I market maybe some advanced marketing techniques, things of that nature. And this is where the vulnerability comes in, because you may not have the time to do extensive research. And so you might go down a path that seems like a good idea, and it could be seemingly a good idea, but your business may not be ready for and might not be a good match. And when you have a business coach who’s able to help you because they have experience in looking at different opportunities beyond just the one that you might have seen, it can help you narrow down some of those choices.



And that’s not necessarily gonna tell you just one thing, but give you some options that you may not be aware of, and you get to borrow somebody else’s brain with that. And then the other piece of it is that you can save yourself from making decisions that aren’t serving the business really well. And so having somebody that you can brainstorm ideas with or talk through some of the things that you’re doing and more importantly, help you stay focused on the most important and most impactful strategies that you can move forward. Because again, that distraction space, this is where you’re gonna start getting calls from vendors and, Hey, do you want this? And do you want that? And you can find yourself all of a sudden down these rabbit holes of looking at things that are not moving the business forward. So business coach can sometimes help you just stay grounded and focus on to what you really wanna focus on and need to focus on as well.


Stephanie Everett (31:27):

And to have that clarity, which as you said, clarity is currency. And I think it’s easy in this stage to just wrestle with all the decisions you’re making and be unsure of yourself. And you might make a decision that is the right decision, but then you’re still up at night rolling it around in your head, was that right? Am I going down the right path? And so I think having that outside coach and community of other business owners that we connect people with in Lab gives you that chance to say, yeah, I’ve got this. I am clear. I know what I’m doing, and I have confidence in the decisions I’m making and in my business. And let me tell you, that is the best sleeping pill you can give yourself.


Karen Graves (32:10):

It is so true. And especially speaking too about that community aspect. I used to do study groups of Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, and he talks about the Mastermind being one of those success principles. And when you’re talking to yourself, you’ve got one set of ideas talking to another person, you’ve got, now we’re proportionally more ideas. And so it’s not just one in one equals two, it’s like one in one equals now we have access to all these ideas. Well, imagine if you’re in a group, a group that there’s 10, 20, 25 people who are all aligning with the same types of thinking, and now you have access to infinite ideas, and you never know what ideas are gonna come to you that you wouldn’t have had if you had just been by yourself trying to think your way through it. Love it. So yeah, access to other brains, do it all day. <laugh>. Yeah, borrow brains. <laugh>.


Stephanie Everett (33:05):

I love it. Well, anyone who’s listened all the way through is not questioning my decision to hire Karen. It’s obvious why we brought her to the team, brought her to the community, will have you back on the show to share other ideas with our podcast audience. And I’m, I’m so excited that we’re just starting this journey with you.


Karen Graves (33:24):

I am so excited to be here. Wouldn’t wanna be anywhere else, and I can’t wait to work with, work with all of our clients in our community. It can be fun.



The Lawyerist Podcast is edited by Britany Felix. Are you ready to implement the ideas we discuss here into your practice? Wondering what to do next? Here are your first two steps. First. If you haven’t read The Small Firm Roadmap yet, grab the first chapter for free at Lawyerist.com/book. Looking for help beyond the book? Let’s chat about whether our coaching communities, are right for you. Head to Lawyerist.com/community/lab to schedule a 10-minute call with our team to learn more. The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not endorsed by Legal Talk Network. Nothing said in this podcast is legal advice for you.

Your Hosts

Stephanie Everett

Stephanie Everett is the President of Lawyerist, where she leads the Lawyerist Lab program. She is the co-author of the bestselling book The Small Firm Roadmap and is a regular guest and co-host of the weekly Lawyerist Podcast.

Featured Guests

Karen Graves

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Last updated December 8th, 2022