Episode No: 381
In this episode Zack sits down with the Matt Speigel, the founder and CEO of Lawmatics, a CRM platform designed to help you manage every aspect of your client relationship from start to finish. They discuss automation for law firms. It’s not something to be intimidated by, but something that brings value to both you and your clients. Automation can save you time and grow your firm.
Points of Note:
- 12:08 -- Automation for workflows
- 16:57 -- Breaking automations into bite-sized pieces
- 21:41 -- What's available for automations
Zack Glaser is the Legal Tech Advisor at Lawyerist, where he assists the Lawyerist community in understanding and selecting appropriate technologies for their practices. He also writes product reviews and develops legal technology content helpful to lawyers and law firms. Zack is focused on helping Modern Lawyers find and create solutions to help assist their clients more effectively.
Matt Spiegel is a lawyer and serial entrepreneur in the legal-tech space. He is Co-Founder and CEO of Lawmatics, the #1 attorney-client relationship management platform that provides law firms with client intake, CRM, and marketing automation. With Lawmatics, law firms win more business, impress clients, and are more efficient. Prior to Lawmatics, Matt was Co-Founder and CEO of MyCase, a legal practice management software company that was acquired by AppFolio in 2012.
Transcript automatically created.
Welcome to The Lawyerist Podcast, a series of discussions with entrepreneurs and innovators about building a successful law practice in today’s challenging and constantly changing legal market. Lawyerist supports attorneys, building client-centered, and future-oriented small law firms through community, content, and coaching both online and through the Lawyerist Lab. And now from the team that brought you The Small Firm Roadmap and your podcast hosts
Zack Glaser (00:35):
Hey, y’all, I’m Zach Glaser the legal tech advisor here at Lawyerist. And this is episode 381 of the Lawyerist podcast. Today we’re diving into another sponsored podcast episode in these we’re joined by a legal voice or company, and we discuss the newest features, happenings and trends in the legal world. Again, we’re excited to offer these episodes to our audience, and we hope you enjoy them today. I’m joined by Lawmatics, founder and CEO. Matt Spiegel will be talking about saving time and getting more clients through automation.
Matt Spiegel (01:06):
I’m Matt Spiegel, the founder and CEO of Lawmatics. And I’m very excited to be here with you today, Zach
Zack Glaser (01:12):
Matt, I’m excited to have you here. Not only are you the founder and CEO of Lawmatics, but you also started Mycase, which is still going strong in the law practice management area and Lawmatics. I have some difficulty categorizing it sometimes, but we’re in the, the CRM, the client relationship management space. Really?
Matt Spiegel (01:33):
Yes, yes. We are a full stack CRM, the way that we look at it and the way that we like the market to look at it is, you know, CRM is designed to really help you manage every aspect of your client relationship and that’s start to finish. So from the moment that you are first contacted by a client all the way through their case and after their case has been handled by your law firm, that is all part and parcel of the relationship. And so our software designed to help you manage all at aspects of that relationship.
Zack Glaser (02:05):
Well, that makes, That makes sense. Right? Well, so let let’s talk about in, in this, your kinda experience as a building software companies, especially for, for lawyers and, and we were talking about what to expect as a lawyer out of a software company. Could you kind expand upon that a little bit?
Matt Spiegel (02:25):
Yeah. So in our view and, and you’re right, look, I’ve been for better or for worse. I’ve been doing this for a long time. in this space. I started Mycase back in like 2010. So it’s been, it’s been quite some time. I have quite a lot of experience in this specific niche, in our opinion. Or I guess my opinion, I should say there are really two value propositions that you can deliver to a law firm. If you are a service provider, if you are a software company, whatever you are, if you are providing something, a service, a product to law firms, that’s your business, you really can only provide one of two value propositions. right. Or you can, there are only two that you can provide. Maybe you can deliver both. Maybe you can deliver both, but there are two value propositions that are, that are available to you.
Matt Spiegel (03:13):
One is saving time, right? And this is because, you know, as lawyers, some of us charge a lot, I don’t charge anything for my time anymore cause I don’t practice, but I, but I used, I used to charge probably more than I was worth, but we tend to be, you know, expensive by the hour. And so our time is money, right? And if you’re, if you’re saving somebody, if you’re saving a lawyer time during their week, that is being spent on things that are not necessarily been than, than obviously saving them that time and giving them that time back that they could go actually bill for is valuable right now I’m in a different school of thought. I always think that if I can save you two hours a week of billable time, or if non-billable time, don’t bill more, just go enjoy life, right.
Matt Spiegel (03:57):
Go spend, spend those two hours, you know, on the golf course on the beach, go for a walk. Like I think that’s more valuable, but that’s neither here nor there, right? The point is that you’re saving time. The other value proposition is getting more business right. Those are the two big levers. You can save me some time, which is time is money or you can get me more business. And those are the two value props that I think at the end of the day, it really boils down to when it comes to legal tech or legal services, you are providing one, one, or if not both of those services or those value propositions.
Zack Glaser (04:28):
Yeah. And I think we can, you know, I, I, as the legal tech advisor here, I create taxonomies in our website and I’m, I’m tasked with kind of dividing up the software that we review and, you know, the partners that, that we have. And I, I think you can put all of the, like you said, value propositions of any of the companies that we have on our website into one of those areas. You know, I think you’re absolutely right. A, a practice management system is gonna save you time. A CRM is gonna save you time and, and potentially get you more business, a virtual receptionist, again, saving time, getting more business, all, all of that. I think, I think you’re absolutely right. But I, I think there are, you know, when we get into that, there are still some really basic ways of doing that. And everything kind of looks a little different, but we’re talking kind of in order to save time, a lot of times we’re, we’re automating. Yeah. You know, we’re, we’re doing something for you.
Matt Spiegel (05:28):
Yep. And so I, I think you hit the nail on the head to me the best way nowadays to save time. And, and we’ve actually uncovered some data on this recently and it’s pretty staggering, but nowadays automation, you know, this is like kind of what, what we focus on at <inaudible>, but there are a lot of ways to automate like automating your practice now is really key. You know, I used to think it was actually a competitive advantage, you know, in the last five years, five years ago to be automated. Now it’s almost becoming table stakes. Yeah. But you need to have some automation and it’s, it is the best way to save time. And before, when you’d be looking at products, you’re, you’re thinking, okay, great. This, this product is gonna save me an hour or it’s gonna save me two hours. And that is very, you know, even an hour or two hours during the week is really powerful for a busy, right. Yeah.
Zack Glaser (06:17):
Matt Spiegel (06:18):
But what we’re seeing is automation saving 20 hours a week. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, significant time and you almost start to think, man, like, how is that possible? What am I, I’m not even spending 20 hours on things that are administrative or non-billable the reality of it is you are right, right. You just don’t even realize it. And it might not be you who’s spending that time. It might be your paralegal. It might be another support staff who is somebody who, you know, maybe they’re, they’re, you’re, they’re being billed for. Maybe they’re not kind of, doesn’t really matter. The point is that there’s lots of valuable things that they could be doing with their time. And if they’re spending it on repetitive tasks, you know, maybe each task takes five minutes here, five minutes there. But when you’re doing that, you know, so many times over the course of a week, that adds up. And so when, when we look at just some statistics across the spectrum here, and we see, you know, like 16% of firms saying that with automation, they save 10 to 20 hour is a week and 32% saying that they save six to 10. Right? Yeah. That, that puts us with almost 50% of firms that use automation saying that they, they save anywhere from six to 20 hours per week. Right. Is just staggering. The amount of administrative tasks that are being that, that are automatable at this day and age.
Zack Glaser (07:40):
Well, yeah. And, and I, I think two things with that one is that we’re not talking about giant, massive 300 lawyer firms that are saving six hours a week. We’re, we’re talking about small to medium size law firms. You know, they, they are saving six to 20 hours. And I mean, quite frankly, that’s real money that’s real time. So in your experience though, because we’re talking about, yes, we are talking about repetitive tasks, but we’re kind of talking about tasks that are hiding. I think, how do people find that repetition? You know, what, what’s the best way to go about finding those? What I’m thinking about is like the spaces in between tasks. Does that make sense?
Matt Spiegel (08:19):
I, yeah. So I think that that’s the really important part. Right? Cause what I think a lot of lawyers struggle with sometimes when they think of automation is trying to make these massive macro automation like workflows. Right. And they think, they think really, really big instead of starting really, really small and that’s where the value is, right. Value is in those small things. And then that’s why I encourage all lawyers to not, not try to do this themselves, but to really start with their support staff. Because what you wanna do is you wanna find those things during the day, you wanna find the things that are happening over and over and over and over the things that get automated are repetitive tasks, right. You’re not gonna necessarily automate, you’re not gonna automate reviewing cases. Right. Like things that require you to form opinions and to take in data and think about them. Right. Right. But things like sending out a document to be signed, right. Capturing an e-signature or preparing a form to be sent out for a client intake after they’ve hired you or scheduling your consultation, like things that happen the same, you know, day in and day out being done by you, the lawyer or a paralegal, those are the areas. Those are the lowest hanging fruit. That’s where there is significant value in, in finding ways to automate.
Zack Glaser (09:35):
Right. Yeah. Cause I, I, I think it has been difficult for me to find ways to automate sending out a request for admissions. Yeah. When I was practicing Sion, I would try to, to figure out, but even in that, I think there are small things that we can automate in that process. If we really break it down, down into sections. Yes. We may not be able to automate the entire request for admissions, but we may be able to automate the creation of the header, the creation of the caption, the, you know, sections of it. And I think, like you said, talking to the people that are doing the work, but also kind of keeping track of, of that. I think keeping track of how long it takes to do let’s stay on this request for admissions thing. Because I think it’s kind of a thing that we think, oh, I’m never gonna be able to automate that, but I think we could probably tease out a few things that you could, and if we tracked how long it took to do each section of building the request for admissions, sending it off, keeping track when, when somebody should send back a response to that keeping track of whether or not the attorney has that in their hands.
Zack Glaser (10:43):
You know, I think we could find places that we could automate if we track the time, you know, if we, if we tracked how long people are doing things
Matt Spiegel (10:50):
Well, so what’s so interesting is that like you bring up a, a really awesome point about how to think about automations. Cause you know, again, like a request for admissions, which may be this, you know, a massive project in itself. Right. and maybe you’re right. Maybe there, there are definitely parts of it that you can’t. But the problem is is you, you gotta think about automations, not just in terms of doing actions for you but like automations can also be triggers to remind you to do something or set up around timing. Right. And so, you, you can find the in between, right. So, you know, maybe you have to, you know, review what, what needs to be, you know, information that needs to be taken into account for this, for this particular document, whether it’s request for admissions or anything else, but then, you know, once that review happens, there’s, you know, there’s like, there’s a waiting period or there’s like another part of the, that it needs to go through.
Matt Spiegel (11:39):
And then when that part of the process is complete, you just want to be alerted about it. Right. Right. And so sometimes the automations are just about making you more efficient with, with like your schedule, right? Like, because a lot of times what happens is, you know, something goes into a process, you know, that has multiple steps and maybe those steps can’t be automated, but the problem is, is that it gets lost. Right. And you end up like, you just, you just get busy and you’re like, oh my God, I forgot to do that and do this. So like automations can be used to help keep you on task with some of these projects that can’t be automated themselves.
Zack Glaser (12:08):
Right. I love this because I think this is a place that people don’t really think about with the term automation necessarily, but it’s, it’s workflows. One of the things that workflows do a as you’re saying is if I go into a case, if I go into a case file and I have to review it, I have to review the whole thing. Every time I go into this case file in order to figure out where we are, and then I have to take a phone call and I set it down and I, I put it to the side and or I have to take a meeting or I have to do some, I have to go to lunch. I, I don’t care. But then the next time I pick up this case file, I have to review the whole thing to figure out where I am.
Zack Glaser (12:46):
And there are six people working in this case file and I’ve got different tasks that they’re doing. And every time they have to go into there, they have to review the whole thing. But if we set up task flows, workflows, and we have check boxes and we have tasks that are checked off, then I can go into it and say, what’s my task that I’m doing because we’ve already organized it. And I think that’s something that gets lost in this idea of automation. Cuz like you said, I’m not doing anything for me, but I am so saving a ton of time.
Matt Spiegel (13:15):
Yeah. And not only are you saving time, but you’re not letting things fall through the cracks. Yes. Another really good example. Like maybe a bit more, you know, not as sexy, an example of that is an automation for, okay, let’s say some, like you have a lead that comes into your website. Right. And you have an automation that is the designed to send them out a text message with a link to schedule the consultation right. But they don’t schedule well just continuing to send them the same, you know, the same message in the same format. by the same method of communication is probably not gonna work if it didn’t work the first time or two. Right. Right. And so oftentimes what we see then is it’s, it’s an automation that has a task thrown in at a certain point that says, Hey, you need to call this person because they haven’t scheduled their consultation.
Matt Spiegel (14:06):
Right. And so it’s this idea of like weaving tasks that you need to actually do into an automated process because kind of two, your point, like if you don’t have that task in there, this is what’s gonna happen. That lead is gonna not schedule their appointment. And guess what that lead is now dead because you are not gonna go through, you don’t have a system you’re not gonna go through and be like, oh, let me look today at everybody who, you know, who came in, but didn’t schedule a consultation yet. You’re not gonna do that. Right. But if you’re given this ask, oh here’s my task today. I gotta call this person. Oh I can see exactly why I need to call ’em because they came in as a lead and they didn’t schedule their consultation. Like this is really important to your business.
Zack Glaser (14:47):
You know, that, I think that’s a fascinating thing because when, when I think of automation and I think a lot of people do this when, when I think of automation, I think of saving time, you know, we, we go back to your two value props of saving time and getting more business. And I think automation is gonna save time. But it also benefits if it gets me more business. And like you said, staying on top of those tasks and, and having I to think of those sorts of tasks as the rip cord, that’s the, Hey, somebody needs to look at this and that’s a fine place to be in your, in your workflows is we have a regular automation, this task, this task, this task. And then if this thing happens, it gets kicked out. So somebody looks at it and for that example, that automation or that task is going to get you more business, you know? And so it’s not just about saving time. And I don’t think about that with automation very much.
Matt Spiegel (15:39):
Yeah. I think that’s part of the problem. Right. And I think that’s what we, you know, what we can try to do is share our experiences, share what we’ve seen, working really well for law firms, with the community, right. With, with other lawyers and help them understand like the way to look at it. Because I think also what you see, a lot of times our lawyers just get a little intimidated with automation, right? You give them great power to do these things and it can, it can sometimes be a bit overwhelming. And if you think, you know, if you just start thinking about it more on a micro level, you just tend to get better results. And we’ve just, you know, we’re in a position to have seen so different law firms automate so many different things that we just kind of have a great idea for what, what some best practices are now. Right. And I think just sharing that with lawyers just really helps them be less intimidated by building automations.
Zack Glaser (16:24):
I think that’s absolutely true. And, and people can, you know, I, I’m actually a part of, of the, the law, medics. I don’t know if it’s official or unofficial Facebook group where, where people, you know, kind of kick back and forth a lot of information about that. But I, I have seen people look into these things, look into automation and they do want to build these giant machines. You want to build this huge thing that has, and kind of backing up, you alluded to this, but I, I think it automation into me is a trigger and an action
Matt Spiegel (16:56):
Or actions. Yeah.
Zack Glaser (16:57):
Yes, yes. And people want to create these big machines that have trigger action, trigger action, trigger a, you know, just a, a series of this yeah. From the start. And if you can do that more power to you, I guess. But I think what you’re saying here is find a specific thing, find a small little task that you can say, okay, this is easy to trigger and here’s an action. And this action doesn’t actually have to be done by a computer or something like that. The action can be done by human. But the triggering event is really, I think the important part there.
Matt Spiegel (17:32):
Totally. I agree completely. And I encourage like, look, I think there’s a time and place for the big automations that have, you know, several different if then branches that take you down different paths. But generally speaking less is more right. And, and the, and the reason why we like breaking down automations into bite sides pieces is because, you know, imagine you have this massive, massive, massive automation and that you, first of all, you have a lot more points of failure that like everything after mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it’s a chain, right? So if, if a link breaks up here, it’s gonna disconnect everything else. Right. Right. So you have a lot more points of failure. And if you’re, if you’re more manageable, it’s also a lot easier to edit and change things, right. Because if you have this massive, massive, massive automation with a hundred actions and all these different, if then statements going in and understanding how the flow works, making edits to it can sometimes be a major nightmare. Right. Right. And so if you have automations that are limited to like six or less actions in general, it’s just much more manageable. It’s much more easier to understand and read your workflows, right. Your automations than if you have these big, massive things.
Zack Glaser (18:37):
Yeah. And I, I think that gets into being able to use them more, you know, if you, if you modularize your automations, cuz I, I think one of the things I was able to do in my practice was create a macro that just put up a caption. So whenever I was in a document and I wanted to put up a caption, I hit, you know, like control queue or control shift, queue, and a table with the guts of a caption for my, my pleading was there. And then I also had a macro that, that did a get a service at the bottom prior to doing that. I would have to go search for a, another document copy and paste. And that saved me a lot of time, but it’s a really simple automation, you know, and it can be done. You know, you think about things like text expander. It can be done in a lot of different places, but it’s just this small peice redundant, you know?
Matt Spiegel (19:33):
Yep. And I think like what it takes, it’s not easy to do this necessarily. No. Right. And so the, the, the thing is, is like, what we encourage lawyers to do is like, just invest a little bit of time. Like you gotta remember, like, it’s gonna take a little bit of time, but like the amount of time it’s gonna save you is staggering. Right. So it’s worth the investment. If it takes you up 10 hours to like plan out your automations and get ’em built that pales in comparison. In fact, I would argue that like almost every hour you put in, it saves more on the backend. Right. so spend the time to actually map out your automations, like write then down, right. Jot down, jot you don’t have to like draw them like, oh, this is gonna go to here and there, but just like write out like, Hey, this process is going to do X. Like if this happens, I am going to do X, Y, Z. So like, if this person fills out this form on my website, I want to do this, this, and then this. Right. Right. And you just, you know, you just keep writing those things down and talk to your staff and get getting a list of those things that like, you know, when somebody does this, I wanna do this and you just write all those down and that is your template then for going and creating these automations. It makes it a lot more simple.
Zack Glaser (20:41):
Yeah. I, I think that’s, that’s exactly right. And I’d like to speak in terms of drawing these things out, but I think you’re absolutely right. Like I have always had a big whiteboard behind me and I draw them out on a whiteboard, all my kind of decision trees, but I think you can do it and
Matt Spiegel (20:57):
The pod, the podcast can’t see, but you’ve got a nice whiteboard right behind you right now.
Zack Glaser (21:01):
Right. Right. And, and that’s, I’ve just always, I’ve always had one in my offices and, and this is actually as sticky one that I just kind of throw against the wall and that’s how I envision it. But I think people can do an Excel spreadsheet. Yeah. I’ve had assistance that really think about it in a, a word document. You can do it in a, in a OneNote document. You can do it on, on a legal pad. You know, I I’ve had people that, that we work within our, in our program where say, just draw it on a legal pad, take a picture of it. Now it’s digitized. <Laugh> you know, but I think you’re right of just expressing it some way. And what, what do I want this thing to do?
Zack Glaser (21:41):
Well, let, let’s talk a little bit about the types of things that are available for automation. I think we can use Lawmatics as an example, but I think this is a good example of what you could do with other things as well. So you’ve got workflows inside of, of Lawmatics, you know, kinda like a series of tasks, tasks, and alerts. And then you’ve also got kind of building documents inside of there that can be automating documents. What else are ways that people can kind of think of these automations?
Matt Spiegel (22:12):
I think like, look again, and it’s, it’s a little bit of a loaded question in the sense that like we know at Lawmatics, this is kind of what we do. So like there’s actually a lot of things that you can automate at Lawmatics that you just can’t automate in other platforms. That’s just, you know, that’s just kind of how it is, but I’ll use Lawmatics as an example of what you can automate because is, I think it’s again like that’s, that is like the core of what we do. It’s what our focus is, you kind of can automate anything and that’s the beauty of it, right? It’s like anything that Lawmatics like, lets you do, you can automate it. So like, you know, sending emails automated, right? creating documents, automated sending documents for e-signatures automated being able to send text messages and, and client communications automated you can automate interactions. Like again, it’s like, for example, Lawmatics has a client portal, so something that you need to do when new clients come in is invite them to the client portal. Right? And so we built an automation action, so you can automate the inviting. And so it’s like, again, these are things it’s like things that need to happen all the time are things that are auto automatable.
Zack Glaser (23:15):
I think that actually gets kind of into, into an important thing. When looking for a platform that will allow you to automate or looking for platforms that will allow you to automate thinking about automation the other day and how you do it, basically like literally you have to have a trigger, you have to have an action, but a piece of software or a platform has to have control of that trigger or that action. It has to that’s correct. It has to keep track of whatever it is, is going to fire off that trigger. And it has to have control of whatever it is, is going to make that action. And I look at zaps as an example, a lot of times, you know, something will say, Hey, we, we integrate with zapier, which is great. I think that’s a wonderful first step, a lot of times for automation, but you look at the action and you look at the trigger and they’re lacking because there’s not something that keeps track of whatever the trigger is. And there’s not something that can fire off that action. So when looking for a platform that’ll automate, I think of what has control over these things that I need to do.
Matt Spiegel (24:20):
You bring up another really great point. Like automations are only as good or your ability to automate is only really as good as the triggers that you have available. Right. Right. What I think lawyers need to be very careful about with some products that are out there is you need to be very careful not to confuse automation with workflows, right? Yes. So a good automation platform can also build workflows. And when I say workflows, like, like you mentioned, it workflows to me are really just like a series of tasks that are created. automations are things that actually do things for you right now. An automation can create a task for you. so that’s part of workflow, but like, like a workflow is not necessarily gonna like prepare a document and get it sent out for signature or a, do you know, it’s gonna actually like invite somebody to the client portal.
Matt Spiegel (25:04):
Like those are more automation. And so you have a lot of programs out there that call themselves automation, but really all they’re doing is automatically creating tasks for you to do. Right. And so you just need to be very careful, like that’s not automation that is just building a workflow, but you’re still the one who’s doing it. So it’s like, you might have a program out there that automatically creates a task that tells you to send the document for signature, but it doesn’t send the document for you. You have to go in and actually send it and that’s not automation. Right. Right. And so it’s an important thing to remember there as you’re looking.
Zack Glaser (25:40):
I think so, but I, I think we, we kind of need to split this one hair. I think kind of going back to a little bit of what we were talking about earlier, where the automation doesn’t necessarily have to do the thing for you, but in that workflow, you know, it could still be automation or would still be automation if it alerts you to it, instead of just being a task, if it sends an email to you saying, you need to do this thing, because I think we can still consider that automation because we have the trigger that creates that. And then it’s alerting a human to the, we, I guess I wanna say we don’t always have to, we can have a human doing the task, but it still needs to kind of have that alerting, have that ability to do something for you.
Matt Spiegel (26:25):
That’s exactly right. And, and it’s, and it’s a, it’s a fine point that some people kind of miss. Right. and, and some, some programs out there, like to conflate that because they wanna say they have automation. Right. Right. And just as a consumer, I think you need to be aware. Right. but then again, coming back to, to triggers, like the triggers are so important because the platform needs to have control over these things. So it’s like, it’s one thing to just be able to trigger saying like, okay, if, if they like fill out a form, right. Okay, great. We can trigger. But it’s like, what if you wanna trigger it off of like, if they’ve paid an invoice or if you wanna trigger off of, you know, whether they’ve signed a document or not or just being able to trigger off any sort of conditional logic based on fields, which is sort of like the greatest power that you could have inside of an automation.
Matt Spiegel (27:08):
And so automation actions are obviously very important, but equally as important, if not more important are how you can trigger those things. And so it’s very important when you’re looking at a platform to make sure that they’re gonna have the ability to trigger a series of actions based off the criteria that you a require, the common ones, you know, that we see most law firms needing are signing documents filling out forms, paying invoices, sending files that are requested and then, and then generally like being able to, you know, to, to trigger off of fields. Right,
Zack Glaser (27:41):
Right. Cause I, I think for me, a lot of times the it’s when a date comes up, because if you can trigger based on a date coming up, then you can do the kind of negative of, if this thing hasn’t happened prior to this date, then we can take this action. You know, if somebody hasn’t signed the contract prior to this date, then we need to send an email, just an anonymous made email. So I, I think in talking about the automation kind of to, I don’t think we can do a sum up of, of automation, but, but basically you need to be able to have a way of tracking these triggers and then a way of, of having a platform do something. I mean, I, I think that’s kind of the basics of automation there.
Matt Spiegel (28:26):
That’s it it’s like to sum it up. You need to have a strong triggering mechanism and you need to have actions that can be done for you. Not solely reminding you of things that you need to do.
Zack Glaser (28:37):
Right? Yeah. Well, Matt, I got a lot of good information out of this. It’s always good to talk to you on all of these sorts of things. If people want to learn more about these types of things, obviously they can connect with you. They can also go to lawmatics.com. I think you guys have a free trial and demos there and videos on, on what can be done and they can really dig into how Lawmatics could help them.
Matt Spiegel (29:03):
Yeah. That’s the best place to go. You check it out. We are obviously always happy to talk to people, to customers and share our experiences and things that can really help you automate and how to build these things. And, and there’s, to me, there’s really no more valuable resource as you’re setting out to do this.
Zack Glaser (29:20):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Matt, once again, thanks for being with me. I really appreciate the information that you provide and I, I look forward to, to seeing you next time that you’re you’re on the podcast.
Matt Spiegel (29:30):
Yeah. Likewise, Zack it’s it’s always a good time to chat with you.
The Lawyerist Podcast is edited by Britany Felix. Are you ready to implement the ideas we discuss here into your practice? Wondering what to do next? Here are your first two steps. First. If you haven’t read The Small Firm Roadmap yet, grab the first chapter for free at Lawyerist.com/book. Looking for help beyond the book? Let’s chat about whether our coaching communities, right for you. Head to Lawyerist.com/community/lab to schedule a 10 minute call with our team to learn more. The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not endorsed by Legal Talk Network. Nothing said in this podcast is legal advice for you.