Should You Go Behind the Court Reporter’s Back to Get Transcripts?

by Lawyerist on June 16th, 2012

A few years ago, Sam provoked the ire of court reporters everywhere by reporting on a 10th Circuit decision that transcripts of public proceedings are not copyrighted. Despite some sensible comments from Aaron, court reporters regularly stop by to call Sam names. What do you think about court reporters’ prices?

Read Court Reporter Transcripts Are Not Copyrighted: Get Them However You Can in the Archives.

Newer Comments →
  • Respondeat Superior

    Its public record. You should not have to pay to get transcripts, nor should they be copyrighted.

  • Res Ipsa

    We do a fair amount of plaintiff title 7 work (sex,age,race discrimination) and my partner just did 3 days of “warm body” depositions. Three 10 hour days of depositions called by a fortune 500 company. That means that my partner was away from the office for three straight days. We have been noticed up for 6 more day of depositions.

    We estimate that the total damages that this lady will receive will be MAX $36,000.00

    We take these cases because they need to be taken. Not because there is a bunch of money at the end of the line… because there is a small dose of justice when these mega companies that allow hidden bigotry to prevail over what is right are held accountable.

    So, in addition to the time required to compile 5 boxes of documents for a discovery request that included 90% documents that the Defendant had the originals of, 9 full days in depositions, we will now be READING 9 days worth of transcripts because, sure as mama made green apple pies, we are going to get a motion for summary judgement with 25 pages of misquoted out of context half questions that unless they are countered by equally banal responses will result in a dismissal. So, the cost to get JUST THE COPIES will be $5,000.00…… and much of the depositions (though interestingly enough, not all) were taken by a brand new out of the box Jr shark that read most of the questions off a sheet of paper and listened to almost none of the answers. The “court reporters” will make $15,000 out of this we stand to make $8,700.00 and given our Circuits propensity to be staffed by former partners of silk stocking firms, we only stand a 1 in 3 chance of even winning, we really stand to loose the $5,000.00 that we will advance because the client has no job/money……

    I just scanned and OCR’ed a transcript of a short depo that I did (it totaled 20 pages and took 15 minuets to complete.) The first 5 pages were all BS titles, headings, and entries.(seriously, go look at one of yours and see for your self)and there was a page at the end that a notary block. The testimony started on page 5 and the word count for that page was 125 words. I did a word count on a single spaced pleading that ran 593 words. So by my math, that means that I could have done the entire deposition in 2.7 pages. Which means the REAL price for a court reporter is $ 46.29 per page and not the $6.25 that was billed. Assuming that the poor lady had to spend 20 min in the depo and the same amount of time in transcribing (really?) then she grossed the equivalent of $166.66 per hour… and remember, she works from her home so that is small overhead.

    Getting copies of “transcripts” and paying as little as possible ….. hey it’s a dog eat dog world.

    I have now wasted over 500 words on this but Damn I feel better!

    • http://lawyerist.com/author/samglover/ Sam Glover

      The first 5 pages were all BS titles, headings, and entries.(seriously, go look at one of yours and see for your self)and there was a page at the end that a notary block. The testimony started on page 5 and the word count for that page was 125 words. I did a word count on a single spaced pleading that ran 593 words. So by my math, that means that I could have done the entire deposition in 2.7 pages. Which means the REAL price for a court reporter is $ 46.29 per page and not the $6.25 that was billed.

      This is the kind of bullshit that gets me. It’s not the per-page rates, it’s the fact that each page contains half (or less) the word count of a normal document, and is sandwiched between as much fluff as possible. When I get a transcript, I feel like the court reporter is playing with font sizes, margins, and filler pages just to wring more money out of me.

  • Allen Sonntag, Certified Reporter

    As far as the “stuff” at the front of a transcript or the double spacing in the transcript, you really should look at the rules promulgated by the various courts in this land. We are required put the information in and required to double space and required to do a lot of stuff. It’snot something we make up, it’s required.

  • http://www.kramm.com Rosalie Kramm

    In California there are minimum transcript guidelines that every certified court reporter must abide by, so many lines a page and so many characters per line. As Mr. Sonntag pointed out, the title and appearance pages are mandatory under the CCP and Federal Rules.

  • cal rptr

    Court reporting agencies keep 50 percent of billing to pay for their employees (calendar, reception, customer service, production, billing, collection, management, rent, etc.) 50 percent roughly goes to the reporter who has equipment expenses, new set up out of school approx 20k. We have to pay for software support and many expenses of being self employed, including our own medical and retirement and taxes, professional fees and continuing education. We also give up many nights and weekends producing transcripts which I feel is something we shouldnt have to do, but if it were paid according to normal employment laws would result in transcripts costing 10 times more and taking up to six
    months longer to produce instead of the two to three weeks that is normal now. See sssworkers comp and superior court. In my opinion lawyers are getting legal slave labor. Yes some reporters make a decent living, but thats only is they’re the superhuman reporter with realtime hookups,

  • california rptr

    Court reporting agecies keep 50 percent approx of the bill to pay for their employees, which include reception, customer service, calendar, production, billing, managment, rent, copiers, etc. They pay the reporter the rest. The reporter goes to school for four to five years, buys 20k of equipment, and passes a rigorous certification process, with an attrition rate of 95 percent. Depo reporters are self-employed, paying for insurance, self-employement expenses, software support and updates, equipment maintenance/replacement, professional fees, continuing education fees, medical, and retirement. We also pay a scoper and proofer which takes about a third of our income. We also work nights and weekends (no extra charge unless expedited fees are paid), which I think is an unpriceable service, but if it were paid according to normal employment laws, lawyers would pay ten times as much and would have to wait six months or longer for their transcripts, instead of the two to three weeks that’s normal now. If you were involved in the process of what it takes to produce that transcript, you would see that it was worth every penny you paid for it.

    As a reporter, I feel we are underpaid. Although, I would hate to be on the other end of having to pay that bill. It is an unfortunate situation sometimes. But many attorneys get huge payoffs after a lawsuit, and most of the time court reporter fees are paid separately. I personally am quitting reporting because I find it too demanding physically, mentally, and time-wise. I’m tired of feeling like I work too hard and not paid enough, only to have the attorneys feel the opposite. Plus the contentious nature of lawsuits is eating away at my soul. Court reporters need to be paid for copies, because it is their work product. Even though they don’t own the transcript, the copy fee goes towards their income to be able to stay in business. And with the rising cost of living and the bad economy, I think everyone is struggling, even court reporters. The amount of lawsuits being processed is slowing down because of court layoffs, and the court system has now put the burden of providing and paying for a civil court reporter on the parties (at least in California for now.)

    • http://BryanGriffith.com Bryan Griffith

      So why don’t court reporters just charge by the hour like the attorneys? You get a windfall profit just because some cases involve more parties who each need to order their own copy. Then you “starve” when cases settle without needing official transcripts.

      If it weren’t for local rules and copyright laws people could truly compete in this market, but instead, court reporters collude to set market rates and refuse to compete on price or service.

  • cal rptr

    The reporter’s net of that depo is 15 percent. If they’re padding that transcript, take it as a sign that the reporter feels underpaid.

  • Res Ipsa

    I should know better than to get into this……

    This is all very interesting: No one is happy with the SYSTEM as it stands.
    => Reporters are slaves to the reporting agency:
    => Apparently some of them feel put upon to work when they want to rather than 9-5:
    => They are “required” by the rules to double space (really that one gets under my skin…. do you really think that the courts care… it is the reporters who get together and make the rules than “cry” about them later)
    =>The equipment costs are too high.
    Well, it seems to me that the modern age and the free market can solve most of the problems:
    1) reporters who don’t want to do it any more should go do something else: this would make room for the reporters who don’t have the “issues” that some do.
    2) Get on the internet and bid on the work: set a price you won’t go under and advertise for it… let the market place put the big agencies out of business. Do you think I would’t hire a reporter at half what I would have to pay an agency? Seriously?
    3) get the rules changed…. not a real problem, after all the rules were made before the present technology was put into place.
    4) get a purchasing agreement together that would have all of the software and equipment purchased through the national association so that the manufacturers would stop taking advantage of the individual reporters and economies of scale would be met (perhaps sharing equipment among the many many part time people would also be allowed under the agreement)

    I have to go and actually get some work done….. but I hope the responses are at least some what useful in terms of making change….because I have to tell you, charging more and more for less and less is not a very sustainable business model…

  • cal rptr

    Sorry, but it’s called inflation.

    And saying a court reporter is keeping all the money paid at a depo is like saying a waiter at a restaurant is keeping all the money from your dinner bill and was the only person involved in creating that dinner. That waiter cannot do all the things necessary to creat your dinner in an efficient manner on a mass level..so the agency does have a very necessary purpose.

  • california rptr

    => Apparently some of them feel put upon to work when they want to rather than 9-5:

    **The agencies promise a two-week turnaround to get clients because of competition. In order for the reporter to meet this deadline and still be able to make a decent living, they have to work nights and weekends, otherwise it would amount to making 1,000 to 2,000 a month. Believe it or not, we do not want to work nights and weekends. It used to be a month was normal turnaround…in the ’80s.

    => They are “required” by the rules to double space (really that one gets under my skin…. do you really think that the courts care… it is the reporters who get together and make the rules than “cry” about them later)

    **No one is crying except the attorneys. And we didn’t make the rules..attorneys and judges did.

    =>The equipment costs are too high.

    **agreed,but even the software and equipment companies need to make a profit to stay in business.

    Well, it seems to me that the modern age and the free market can solve most of the problems:
    1) reporters who don’t want to do it any more should go do something else: this would make room for the reporters who don’t have the “issues” that some do.

    **95 percent of students and reporters quit…isn’t that an indication that the “issues” are very legitimate?? Reporters who stay in the business are troopers and should be given respect and not disdain.

    2) Get on the internet and bid on the work: set a price you won’t go under and advertise for it… let the market place put the big agencies out of business. Do you think I would’t hire a reporter at half what I would have to pay an agency? Seriously?

    **problem is you get what you pay for…

    3) get the rules changed…. not a real problem, after all the rules were made before the present technology was put into place.

    **go for it.

    4) get a purchasing agreement together that would have all of the software and equipment purchased through the national association so that the manufacturers would stop taking advantage of the individual reporters and economies of scale would be met (perhaps sharing equipment among the many many part time people would also be allowed under the agreement)

    **great idea..maybe all attorneys should share computers too and save a whole lot of money that way. FYI, every reporter has a different writing theory that they change and morph while in school to write faster and build a personalized dictionary, and adjust their writer to their finger touch, so the reality is this wouldn’t work. Besides, do you think we all live together or something? We work out of our home.

    Appreciate the effort..

    Maybe court reporting should be handled like every single legit business out there and abide by employment laws, pay an hourly wage, with regular hours.

    Problem is attorneys would really be crying then…and agencies wouldn’t make any money.

  • Non Compos Mentis

    Wah-wah, court reporters. I am sick to death of that community’s constant whining about: start-up costs, equipment costs, having to work nights or weekends, their role as “guardians of the record” (make me puke), and their jealousy of attorneys. The fact is, you are tradespeople. You do NOT have 80K-110K+ in law school debt at a tender age; you do NOT have to compete with others just like you willing to cheapen their prices to get a client (because, particularly in court, you have an absolute monopoly); you do NOT have to work nights or weekends–let someone else do the transcript!–but attorneys DO becuase people’s lives, liberty and justice is on the line. You think 20K for a steno machine is pricey? Please. Try absorbing YOUR costs as an attorney–hundreds or thousands of dollars for the rendering of a public record. Try SEVEN freaking years of school–NOT 18 MONTHS or oooh, 2 years. Try having to buy access to WestLaw, Nexis, etc., bar dues, registration fees, malpractice. Do you people even HAVE malpractice insurance? I guarangoddamtee that lawyers work a HELL of a lot harder than you people, and I for one am sick to death of it. It’s a PUBLIC RECORD. You are NOT the “guardians.” You are in fact REPLACEABLE with a recording device (audio or better still video). So stop your whining and start showing some gratitude to those who pay your overinflated salaries–laywers and taxpayers. Buncha whiners.

    • HonestCSR

      There are honest court reporters who charge honest prices and there are reporters who will do anything to stiff a client. The same can be said about attorneys. Shame on you! I welcome you to do a little research into the field of court reporting before making any further statements such as the ones made here. And “jealousy” of attorneys?! HA! Sounds to me like it’s the other way around.

    • Edward Payne

      I run a billing dept. for a court reporting company. I have one half million in overdue bills that you “guardians of liberty” and the rest of that BS you gang of parisites think you are have never been PAID!!!! But when someone needs legal advise oh you want money up front. I have bills that go back 4 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pay your bills moron!!! Yes the reporter is important and is the guardian of the public record. Your comment is the reason this country is no longer the home of the free. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!There is a law school on every corner in America. Lawyers run D.C. Know wonder this counrty is the way it is!

    • K

      First of all, that was an extremely rude and insensitive comment. You obviously do not understand anything you are blabbering on about. Attorneys are a dime a dozen, they are everywhere! Two percent of court reporters make it, TWO percent. And like you, we also have to pay certification dues, continuing education, software upgrades, insurance for equipment, etc. As for your comment about court reporters being replaceable, I wish you weren’t so ignorant. Please go out and buy a recorder and pray that it doesn’t fail on you in your third hour of deposing a witness, pray that no one coughs, sneezes, crinkles paper, or any other possible noise to screw up the audio. See, that’s where having a court reporter is very important, we are NOT machines, therefore, we can stop you when you mumble or make up a word (as oftentimes lawyers do) and say, “What was that?” I’m sorry, tell me what recording device does that? If you knew even half of what you are complaining about or even what a court reporter does, you wouldn’t say anything about our — what was it you called it? Overinflated salaries? Please! Listen to yourself you mewling ignorant pig!

  • cal rptr

    No whining..just defending and justifying.

    Attys seem to be doing the whining…look who started exchange.

    Try four to five years and 60k to 80k debt..and still quitting mainly bc of attys like you.

  • r. dernister

    And how about those wonderful reporters who write into the record what they “know the judge meant to say”, not what he actually said? One court reporter even wrote a book several years ago wherein he wrote almost exactly the words I used in my previous sentence. Replace court reporters with audio recorders and have computer software prepare the hard copy.

  • realtimereporter

    Seriously, attorneys here, you need to engage your brains before your mouths open. You’re complaining about reporters being paid for court transcripts, saying they’re public records and so should be free. Those reporters are sitting in court from 9 to 5 listening to your every word and preserving it for all time in case you say something worth repeating. At some point in time, YOU order that transcript. If the reporter is sitting in court every day from 9 to 5, when do you think they invest the hours to produce the product? It’s certainly not on County time! It’s when they get out of court, weekends, evenings, sick days, vacation days. And you resent paying them for that time???? Give me a BREAK! Are you attorneys going to work on cases without charging a fee for the time you spend? I don’t think so. The attorneys involved in this discussion thread are just the kind reporters avoid working for. Eventually, you’re going to figure that out when you can’t get a reporter to cover a deposition or trial for you, or when you can’t get a transcript with a bill enclosed – you get a COD instead! Your attitude is laughable.

  • http://www.naplesreporting.com Tony Wright

    In Naples, Florida, I’ve found a way to circumvent stenographic court reporters altogether. I’m the only one in Naples offering “digital court reporting” where I record depos and hearings with nice audio/video equipment. I send the aforementioned recordings off for transcription (at a much better rate than a court reporter) and my office reads and certifies them for accuracy.

    End result is is a transcript that is about 30-40% less than my competition for a BETTER transcript. If you want to see if there is a digital court reporter in your area, check out the AAERT, the American Association for Electronic Reporters and Transcribers. They are the people you’ll hear court reporters talking shit about.

  • Official Realtimer

    Tony, “They are the people you’ll hear court reporters talking sh_t about.” First of all, I think that is uncalled for. Second of all, and probably more importantly, this is not a string about stenographers/realtime reporters vs. digital recording. The string is about “court reporters”, of which I believe “digital reporters” would be included, i.e. your firm, as your firm takes depos and transcribes them. It is too bad you seem to always gravitate toward making this an “us vs. them” type of thread.

    So if you read carefully above, the attorneys who seem to be complaining are complaining, from what I can tell, mostly about the costs associated with the transcripts. You claim you are 30-40% lower in cost, great! However, making the post seem like “stenographers/realtime reporters” talk sh_t about your digital reporters is ludicrous. We all compete in the marketplace. It is as simple as that, and the market determines what is in demand, regardless of what method each of us choose.

  • Official Realtimer

    Since there are numerous misinterpretations in this thread from the beginning, the following will give readers the true version of what really happens:

    In response to Res Ipsa’s complaint on June 18, 2012 about the “BS title…”. If there were no title page, you would have no idea what deposition you were receiving. I am not being demeaning when I say this, but you went to law school, and you know all legal documents have a title page. With all due respect, it seems like you have a lot of unhappiness about a lot of things (read below).

    From your June 25, 2012 thread: “They are ‘required’ by the rules to double space (really that one gets under my skin….do you really think that the courts care…it is the reporters who get together and make the rules than (sic) ‘cry’ about them later.”
    ANSWER: Yes, the courts do care! That is why there are rules in place as to the double spacing, the placement of text, the fonts, and the margins, etc. in transcripts. Again, you went to law school, you know how the system works. You know the courts place rules upon the litigants, the attorneys, the court reporters, etc. relative to various aspects of practicing in their jurisdictions. Court reporters have never, and will never, be rule makers. I kindly suggest you do the research before making statements that put you in an otherwise compromising position. In addition, intimating that reporters “cry” about rules placed upon them, is an exaggeration. As with attorneys, citizens and others, when rules are promulgated, we(I) follow the rules whether we(I) agree with them or not. If I don’t like the rules, I have the freedom under our Constitution to do something about it, or not. I would suggest to you if you don’t like the rules (double spacing, etc.), you have the freedom to do something about it….or not. And if you choose to go the “or not” route, then you live with whatever the rule is. Complaining is inaction.

    As far as “Get on the internet and bid on the work: set a price you won’t go under and advertise for it…let the market place put the big agencies out of business,” if you want to put the “big agencies” out of business, then hire the small agencies to do your work. It’s very simple economics. Again, the marketplace determines. You, the attorneys determine who stays in business. It’s all in your corner :) And the same holds true for the attorneys. If they have work, and they want bids from agencies, call the agencies and get bids. As far as I know, I haven’t come any “bids” on the Internet. So call around to the various court reporter firms, and seek to get what you want. Again, it’s all in your corner, as you are the client.

    Relative to your comment, “get the rules changed…”, you seem to be the one who is unhappy with the current rules. If you want it changed, you have the freedom under the Constitution to do something about it…or not. I have heard an incredible amount of complaints over the years about how much attorneys charge. I don’t think if I were one of the complainers that I would say to you as an attorney, “Get the rules changed so that people don’t have to pay so much for an attorney.” If I am complainer, the ball’s in my corner. :)

    In response to your comment, “get a purchasing agreement together that would have all of the software and equipment purchased through the national association so that the manufacturers would stop taking advantage of the individual reporters and economies of scale would be met (perhaps sharing equipment among the many many part time people would also be allowed under the agreement)”. What?? Not trying to be demeaning — but I’m sure this will come off as appearing so — how long have you been an attorney? Sounds great in Utopia, but so unrealistic in any, way, shape or form. You discussed the free market 2 paragraphs ago, but this answer completely flies in the face of any free market discussion. First of all, no one said (except you) that the manufacturers were taking advantage of the individual reporters. They’re not. It is a free marketplace. It’s like buying a car or anything else. Here’s the price, if you want it, great! If not, you are free to buy used, or not at all. Surely you understand this, right? You can’t, nor should you, force companies to charge a certain amount — I’m sure you wouldn’t want people to tell you how much you can charge for your service, correct? It is simple economics and free market.

    Finally, relative to your comment, “…charging more and more for less and less is not a very sustainable business model,” if that were a correct statement, that would be true. You’re one of the few attorneys who sees it that way. Many attorneys find great value in the services reporters provide, and in the transcripts they produce. They especially are appreciative for realtime reporting. So I guess the value is in the eye of the beholder. Value is not only cost related, though. That is one of many components. However, if one only looks at value through cost, then the only phrase that would be applicable is “Buyer beware”.

    Addressing “Non Compos Mentis” reply of June 27, 2012:
    You talk about being sick to death of reporters’ “constant whining” as you call it. However, almost the entirety of your comments are a complaint in one way or another about the costs of law school, lawyers having to cheapen their costs, the length of time spent in law school, and costs associated with being a lawyer. You then go on to indicate that lawyers work a lot harder than reporters. This is not a comparison between lawyers and court reporters and who works hard, who has more costs to bear, etc. From what I could tell, there was an attorney who was complaining about the cost of transcripts and then a reporter chimed in and set forth the various costs that reporters bear. Then you start in about a comparison. Court reporters are NOT lawyers, and we never have claimed to be. In addition, unless you have been a reporter, how would you know whether reporters work harder than attorneys or not? Like any profession, I’m sure there are some that do work harder and some that don’t. But to make a blanket statement like that is absolutely false, unless you have the facts to back it up. So my question to you is: Do you have any empirical data to support such a statement? Either keep it truthful or keep it quiet.

    Have a great day, All!

  • T Bowman

    I have been waiting on a transcript from a hearing in Sonoma County Superior Court in CA for going on five weeks now. The court reporter, after two e-mails and a voice messgae left days ago by me, finally e-mailed me back to say she would have it to me NEXT week. I emailed back asking if “next week” meant Monday because I had an attorney that needed it two months ago. She wrote back saying she could send it directly to the attorney, and ask me what the attorney’s name was. She said she would call the attorney. I told her I would deal with the attorney myself and didn’t need her help on that end. The court reporter then proceeded to send me another e-mail about California Code blah blah blah and how I couldn’t give anyone else a copy of her copyrighted material. I wrote back saying, I just need the transcript and that I would let the lawyer read the one she sends me and give it back to me at my discretion. I JUST WANT MY PAID FOR ($300) TRANSCRIPT! Is there any timeline code? Also, what gives the court reporter any right to this material, as it is about my life?! Plus, isn’t it public record? Can I get it any other way than going through the reporter? I find this infuriating.

  • T Bowman

    PS I understand the importance of a court reporter and respect the job and all that goes with it. I, on the other hand, feel totally disrespected, as it seems every other case is more important than mine. Who is the court reporter to make this kind of judgement? The court reporter has no idea what’s going on behind the scenes to determine to put any other transcript in front of mine. It is not right. In fact, the transcript I have paid so much for may be totally useless by the time I receive it. It will be brain candy bedtime reading at best. I’ve never paid that much for a book in my life. I prefer the library.

  • realtimereporter

    T. Bowman, I can see why you’re upset with the reporter regarding your transcript request. I’m not a California reporter, but I do know there are rules in place for time limits on transcript requests generated out of California courts. The reporter must abide by those time limits, and if they are not doing so, they are subject to disciplinary action. I would suggest you contact the California Court Reporters Board and submit your issue there. You can also write a letter to the judge in your case explaining the problem. However, if it’s promised to you for next Monday, it may be moot by the time you hear back. Also, just so you know, if this reporter has transcript requests that came in before yours did, those requests take priority absent a court order. I seriously doubt that it’s a personal grudge of any kind against you, though it may seem that way. Transcripts are a first come, first serve process, although a court can order that a transcript be completed within a specified period of time. Absent a court order, whatever is spelled out in the court rules applies. Hope this helps.

Newer Comments →